Custom Build Mixing Console

Looks great - hadn't heard of the 1N13's before - how accurate are they?
It's a gas-discharge "nixie" bar graph display, unscaled. Displays 0-4ma on a linear indicator. They are as accurate as you want make them, since they require a driver circuit. Basically, they're just a linear current display, you need to condition the signal being displayed and provide 120-150V to light them up. After being out of production for decades, they seem to be in limited production again.
 
I am wondering what the empty center section shown here is intended for--?? I also would LOVE to see the schematic for the mic pre!

 
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Hi Dotneck,
Center section usually house selection matrix for 2 tracks, control room section, ( main monitors, out level,...) solo master ( pre,post,ips,...) and master aux and cues.

For the schematics google Neve 1084 schematics the first link ( audio rents) should give you all infos needed.
 
Thanks for the link to the Neve schematics. An EXCELLENT example of music PRODUCTION electronics, as opposed to audio RE-production. That old Neve combination of transformers, tantalum capacitors, and Class-A circuitry just can't be beat!! I wish someone could come up with a way to MEASURE the way in which these vintage modules just SOUND better.
 
By the way . . . I have a Tascam M5000-PS which is the power supply for the Tascam M5000-A 40 Channel Dual-Inline Post Production Recording Console. This is a huge high capacity power supply as required for high-end consoles of the 80's & 90's. Input: 120VAC -240VAC Output: +5VDC, +/-16VDC, +/-24VDC, +/-36VDC, 48VDC. 19" Rack Mount. Takes two people to move it.

It is For Sale. Contact me. Located in SE USA.
 
Ok I'm going to try and answer some questions.
I don't have a lot of time lately to check forums and answer questions so sorry if it takes a while to reply.
If you want to see how the mid section turned out you can look here https://vintageaudioprojects.be/Products/consoles
There are some more pictures from the console installed in place.

The midsection going from left to right houses:
-4 Aux sends and stereo cue send
-4 stereo returns
-8 subgroups. 2 per module
-2254 style compressor. Not an exact copy but same principle integrated in the main mix
-1084 EQ for use on the main mix
-Nixie PPM meter
-Main mix
-monitor controller. (this works seperate from the console. so can be used when mixing only in the box)
-talkback and studio microphone

Then for the power supply we made a 3phase power supply.
It could have been done using normal one phase 230v but we decided to go for 3phase.
We use only L1,L2 and L3 (400v) so if the N cable somehow becomes lose it will just keep going. If one of the phases would fail it will also keep going with a little bit more ripple.
Also using 3phase makes a lower ripple on the main smoothing caps.

This main supply make a rough positive and negative voltage. (just rectification and smoothing)
In the desk there are multiple voltage stabilizers making +/-24v for audio and 24v for auxilary.
These voltages go to every module. When needed to have a symmetric voltage for opamps this can easely be done using simple voltage regulation going from +/-24 to +/-15 or +/-18 inside a module.
The phantom power is not 3phase. it's just rectification and then in the console there are a few smaller voltage stabilizers making 48v

These voltages go to the modules using a 5pole XLR connector.


And then as a last thing. We don't use Tantalum caps. They have no use in audio. it's good to have transformers and the classic neve circuits sound good but the tantalum caps are not a good idea.
We use good quality Panasonic FC caps.
The sound these preamps produce is still bold and neve like but the highs sound a little bit more open. The main reason is because of letting the tant caps go and our clients like it.

Then the mixbus is also a little bit different. it's still a balanced buss mixed into a transformer. The difference is however that we use a bigger stepup ratio transformer and we use feedback that includes the transformer around the mixbuss amplifier making it work more like an active summing network.
so far this seems to work quite well.
The highs and lows extend a little bit more because of this feedback and one of the users said it has lower noise then something neve like he compared it to....
Don't know if that's really true.... sometimes people forget about decent gain staging etc.....

If you want more info you can just ask but it can take a few days till I answer.
 
I agree with your comments about caps & xformers. The Pan FC's are excellent caps partly due their lower Z characteristic. Some caps are differently better in audio signal pathways than others. Caps in audio pathways are not always a negative thing. Most often the 'soul' of a preamp is taken from the 'color' of audio transformers, type of cap and its opamp design, i.e., discrete DOA like 2520, etc.

Current matters a lot in analog designs. When I was doing live sound with analog gear, among the first things I checked out was how big of a power supply the FOH console used (if I didn't know the mixer model well). It's kinda like going into a music store and running one mic through a mixer ... yeah it sounds great! But, try running 16-32 mics through it at once. You may ask what happened! We all have been there I'm sure.

Sounds like you are into a great project! I have built 1-2 consoles years back and it's cool project, but not for the 'weak-hearted'!

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to stay in contact.

Later
 
Referencing grounding in the realm of top drawer consoles, [it] can be 'trick' to maintain low noise values from start to finish. In a perfect world, single-ended cabling would work great, but ... The grounding scheme starts from the electrical service to the electrical panel in the room, then outward >>>

Rane has a collection articles about grounding, shielding, etc. Many consider it to be the 'bible' of such. It's the best I've read.

Later
 
"We don't use Tantalum caps. They have no use in audio. it's good to have transformers and the classic neve circuits sound good but the tantalum caps are not a good idea."
That's debatable. I have a good friend who does a lot of work on vintage studio gear, and he said that he once tried to replace a tantalum cap on a Neve module with a polypropylene, and it changed the sound, much to the alarm of his client. He put the tantalum back and all was good. I also notice that tantalums do provide some sound color in guitar amplifiers. I think tantalums are HORRIBLE as power supply bypassers due to their propensity to short and take down the whole rail. But, I do think they have a sound color that some people (many Neve aficionados) really like.
 
"We don't use Tantalum caps. They have no use in audio. it's good to have transformers and the classic neve circuits sound good but the tantalum caps are not a good idea."
That's debatable. I have a good friend who does a lot of work on vintage studio gear, and he said that he once tried to replace a tantalum cap on a Neve module with a polypropylene, and it changed the sound, much to the alarm of his client. He put the tantalum back and all was good. I also notice that tantalums do provide some sound color in guitar amplifiers. I think tantalums are HORRIBLE as power supply bypassers due to their propensity to short and take down the whole rail. But, I do think they have a sound color that some people (many Neve aficionados) really like.
You are correct in that tantalums are used in some audio circuits, but usually due to their small physical size verses the capacitance value, however typically the Working Voltage is typically small. The better grade of Film cap are are excellent for many audio circuits. Be selective with what electrolytic caps you chose though. If it's not a larger cap value, film capa are hard beat.
 

GrievousA: "Rane has a collection articles about grounding, shielding, etc. Many consider it to be the 'bible' of such. It's the best I've read.

Do you have a link for that?Go to: https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note151.html

Check out these links. I have used these references for decades now. Note the sections on 'telescoping shields', i.e., lifting the shield at one-end. However which end is optimum?

Rane Library https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/library.html
Grounding and Shielding https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note151.html
Sound Systems Interconnections https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note110.html

Enjoy, Billy
 
Hi guys,

As I always dreamed about building my own custom mixing desk we decided to start building one. I know it's more oriented to studio etc but here it goes. We started this around a year ago. For the basic preamp we use the neve 1084 design. We like the sound of this preamp and have good experience with building this preamp. We then devised a way to make Inline modules based on the 1084 and also added a balanced insert point. There is ofcourse a lot more to it then this.

The power supply is 3phase Full wave rectification. This way it will have low ripple and the buffer capacitors will have an easy life and will last long. A neve 1084/1073 wants a good power supply. The concept of this console is also to build something that will last and if something happens the session can continue and it can easily be fixed. The raw rectified power supply is then split up in 4 seperate lines. In the console are the smaller power supplies using lm317/lm337. there is one small power supply for each pair of channels. So if something fails the rest will keep on going.

Then the VU meters are set to 8dbu=0VU. Normally this should be 4dbu = 0VU but for some reason today's engineer like to record quite hot.....don't know why you would do that when you have 24bit adc....... but ok. Doing this we avoid that the meters are continuously pegged to the right....

So now some pictures:

first things first and we started out with a small frame prototyping.
test1.jpg


After this was tested and checked, the work started on the frame.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


And after some more work:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


the work also started on the soldering some PCB's....

preamp.jpg


EQ.jpg


Elma Switches for the gain switch
elma.jpg


P&G faders



pgfader.jpg


after the channelfronts have arrived:
channelfronts.jpg


after the Faderpanels have arrived:
faderprints.jpg


The inside of 1 channel module:

inside.jpg


inside2.jpg


the power supply build:
ps1.jpg


ps2.jpg


Last update untill now.
total1.jpg


VU.jpg


faderknobs.jpg


I have more photo's but this will do for now. I will add more as progress goes.
Excellent work! Do you have a completed photo?