Hello!
I would like to ask you to help me in choosing a system for indoor events.
The event room is not known at this time. The estimation (based on what places are for rent in my town) is that we need OK sound for maximum 35 meters starting from the stage.
The place will host Live concerts.
I was thinking of some Danley SH and TH. But I don't know what the power requirement would be. How many? What model?
Or other brands (L Acoustics?)
Thanks!
Dani
I would like to ask you to help me in choosing a system for indoor events.
The event room is not known at this time. The estimation (based on what places are for rent in my town) is that we need OK sound for maximum 35 meters starting from the stage.
The place will host Live concerts.
I was thinking of some Danley SH and TH. But I don't know what the power requirement would be. How many? What model?
Or other brands (L Acoustics?)
Thanks!
Dani
budget, what type of music, actual cubic volume of venue, and a multitude of other factors can affect what recommendations you get as to type, size, etc which is likely why there hasn't been any responses thus far.
i can make noise that will be heard 35 meters away but without saying what level you need at 35 m is ???
i can make noise that will be heard 35 meters away but without saying what level you need at 35 m is ???
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Yes, I did not provide this info, I don't know what is needed for a Live band to sound OK at 30m back. I am not experienced with this kind of PA setups. I play bass in a rock band, did some DIY home speakers. But PA wise, I am nowhere..
The venue is not decided, I think this is a big problem, the shape / height of the venue.
Budget 30-35 k Euro. Live rock bands mostly, and some after-party with DJs.
Thanks!
The venue is not decided, I think this is a big problem, the shape / height of the venue.
Budget 30-35 k Euro. Live rock bands mostly, and some after-party with DJs.
Thanks!
Lots of good brands to choose from. I like what KV2 audio are doing. Well excuted point source systems with a high focus on sound quality.
Would definitely stick to point source systems with that budget. Danley makes some fine products. If you went that route, look for models with 1.4" exit compression drivers. SH46, SH96HO, etc.
Would definitely stick to point source systems with that budget. Danley makes some fine products. If you went that route, look for models with 1.4" exit compression drivers. SH46, SH96HO, etc.
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If you're a skilled wood worker, the Peter Morris horn-loaded top is an interesting option.
60 Degree DIY Mid Hi | Sound Forums
The Keystone sub by Art Welter is a well proven tapped-horn design. I believe there is a 21" driver version as well. Even more bang for the buck.
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
It might even be worthwhile to have a local shop construct these if DIY isn't an option. The savings might be considerable for the performance, given the cost of similar commercial systems.
Two or four of the tops(or two tops and a center-fill) and four subs properly powered would be plenty.
60 Degree DIY Mid Hi | Sound Forums
The Keystone sub by Art Welter is a well proven tapped-horn design. I believe there is a 21" driver version as well. Even more bang for the buck.
Keystone Sub Using 18, 15, & 12 Inch Speakers
It might even be worthwhile to have a local shop construct these if DIY isn't an option. The savings might be considerable for the performance, given the cost of similar commercial systems.
Two or four of the tops(or two tops and a center-fill) and four subs properly powered would be plenty.
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talent!! sorry couldn't resist that...
targeting a 110-115 level before distortion should provide good results, not that it needs to be that loud but clean headroom is a valuable asset.
You could probably drop it to 105dB at the back, which would mean you need a system capable of putting out around 135dB@1m. Usefully, 35m is roughly -30dB drop in level.
You're into the realm of high-power 3- or 4-way systems.
My system would probably do the job. That's:
Mains - 2x Faital Pro 10FH520, 1x 18Sound ND1460 on an RCF HF94
Subs - 4x Faital Pro 15HP1060 in ported boxes.
Per side.
You could use fewer bass drivers in tapped horns, and fewer again if you were happy with 50Hz extension - one of those 15"s in a 50Hz TH will get seriously loud.
Chris
You're into the realm of high-power 3- or 4-way systems.
My system would probably do the job. That's:
Mains - 2x Faital Pro 10FH520, 1x 18Sound ND1460 on an RCF HF94
Subs - 4x Faital Pro 15HP1060 in ported boxes.
Per side.
You could use fewer bass drivers in tapped horns, and fewer again if you were happy with 50Hz extension - one of those 15"s in a 50Hz TH will get seriously loud.
Chris
Thank you all for the valuable information!
Some more questions now, to be clear for me.I have no experience but eager to learn from you
Thanks!
105dB at the back is not too much? Too much for the front rows I mean.
I guess until the room is not known, some calculations are not possible (thinking about coverage / angles).
As I saw in Danley's SH96 spec, it has 133dB continuous, so one per side can do the job?
Or it should have some more dBs to be on the safe side? I understand the headroom is good to have.
One question about subs: I should think about some Cardioid setups? Or, if the subwoofers are placed under the stage, near the people, few meters from the back of the room (where the drummer is), the omnidirectional effect is not so concerning? What do you think?
Budget for lighting, I don't have a number. It could be that the venue we will rent has some lights.
Some more questions now, to be clear for me.I have no experience but eager to learn from you
Thanks!105dB at the back is not too much? Too much for the front rows I mean.
I guess until the room is not known, some calculations are not possible (thinking about coverage / angles).
As I saw in Danley's SH96 spec, it has 133dB continuous, so one per side can do the job?
Or it should have some more dBs to be on the safe side? I understand the headroom is good to have.
One question about subs: I should think about some Cardioid setups? Or, if the subwoofers are placed under the stage, near the people, few meters from the back of the room (where the drummer is), the omnidirectional effect is not so concerning? What do you think?
Budget for lighting, I don't have a number. It could be that the venue we will rent has some lights.
not knowing what the caliber of bands your talking about or the venues you'll be at, lighting is a big part of a live performance and what rock bands are going to expect is the latest and greatest or just lots of it...
don't assume anything when your getting into this type of venture!
arraying subs is worthwhile when the venue dictates it, in some circumstances it's not feasible because of the layout. keep in mind that arrays or sub stage placement is going to come down to having the ability or system controller that has time/delay facilities to make it work correctly.
for now i would start a shopping list of the stuff you need audio wise (like mic's with stands that have mic clips, and enough xlr cables and Di's and adapters and a case of gaff tape and Sharpie's...) like what size and type of FOH console and whether or not to have a separate monitor desk and outboard gear and...and... the list can grow quickly so you need to talk to the parties involved to make some informed decisions about what to get before you get into setup details.
oh and the volume thing over time you'll discover that in most cases someone will always tell it's too damn loud...
don't assume anything when your getting into this type of venture!
arraying subs is worthwhile when the venue dictates it, in some circumstances it's not feasible because of the layout. keep in mind that arrays or sub stage placement is going to come down to having the ability or system controller that has time/delay facilities to make it work correctly.
for now i would start a shopping list of the stuff you need audio wise (like mic's with stands that have mic clips, and enough xlr cables and Di's and adapters and a case of gaff tape and Sharpie's...) like what size and type of FOH console and whether or not to have a separate monitor desk and outboard gear and...and... the list can grow quickly so you need to talk to the parties involved to make some informed decisions about what to get before you get into setup details.
oh and the volume thing over time you'll discover that in most cases someone will always tell it's too damn loud...
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Most of the big PA companies have modeling software that will help you get an idea of what coverage and levels you can expect to achieve. They will have libraries for their speakers, but you have to build the venue. That generally easy to do. I've used the software from Meyer, JBL, Danley and Renkus-Heinz for work. All pretty similar.
You can go to the Danley website and download the software for free. I like the Danley boxes a lot, use them if you can.
Danley Direct | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
You can go to the Danley website and download the software for free. I like the Danley boxes a lot, use them if you can.
Danley Direct | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
Save budget for acoustic room treatments. The problem with most SPL prediction software is that it can only be as good as the model you give it. I have seen many such packages that ignore ceiling and wall information. If you don't know the location and type of surfaces these are, you can't predict reflections and absorption. You just have a prediction of the incident waveform. You really need to know the room modes and RT times if you care at all about intelligibility.
SPL meters just measure total energy. They don't differentiate between clean or distorted sound. Nor do they know difference between direct and reverberant sound.
Depending on the room, you may wish to use delayed zones of coverage. This way you don't have to blast the front of the stage to get something desirable at the rear. I have seen venues less than 35m between the stage and back do this with great effect.
SPL meters just measure total energy. They don't differentiate between clean or distorted sound. Nor do they know difference between direct and reverberant sound.
Depending on the room, you may wish to use delayed zones of coverage. This way you don't have to blast the front of the stage to get something desirable at the rear. I have seen venues less than 35m between the stage and back do this with great effect.
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