Power Handling Vs. Efficiency is a good read.
double amount of speakers gives +6dB
4 times as much power to a speaker gives +6dB minus extra power compression, and gives about +3dB in reality with high power speakers/drivers.
Want more output? Use more efficient speakers (i.e. horns) or more speakers. More power is not the way to go IMO.
Are there any sound output and quality measurements from high power pa speakers to be found? Preferably after they have been running for hours at a EDM party.
double amount of speakers gives +6dB
4 times as much power to a speaker gives +6dB minus extra power compression, and gives about +3dB in reality with high power speakers/drivers.
Want more output? Use more efficient speakers (i.e. horns) or more speakers. More power is not the way to go IMO.
Are there any sound output and quality measurements from high power pa speakers to be found? Preferably after they have been running for hours at a EDM party.
YW. I think 3 way is the way to go with every full range soundsystem; 2 way tops which play from ~100Hz and up and some subwoofers.
For 100 people, I would look for 4 direct radiator pa tops with an 8 inch driver and a horn tweeter instead of 2 high power tops with bigger (woofer) drivers; because of the better off axis response and clearer mids they will produce.
Active of passive? Outdoors I would go for passive; all electrics central and easier to weatherproof.
Active is nice for noobs/rental; less components, less can go wrong.
For 100 people, I would look for 4 direct radiator pa tops with an 8 inch driver and a horn tweeter instead of 2 high power tops with bigger (woofer) drivers; because of the better off axis response and clearer mids they will produce.
Active of passive? Outdoors I would go for passive; all electrics central and easier to weatherproof.
Active is nice for noobs/rental; less components, less can go wrong.
I'd recommend against this. Multiple HF devices means lots of interference, and mushy sound, particularly off axis.
Also, 8" midbass units will struggle to get loud enough down to 100Hz to meet some subwoofers well. 12"s will move more air, and handle more power.
Chris
The PA is goung to be used in very remote places. I am pretty much cloning Phil B's 3 way unit horn and ss15 subs + barn door set up. All powered from a trailer with battery supply. High eff is a must.
I have now read a lot on the Unity design and will give them a go. Any advice on driver selection or specs i should be looking for would be great.
The hardest part will be measuring/ testing the unity's responce. Links to this would be great also.
I have now read a lot on the Unity design and will give them a go. Any advice on driver selection or specs i should be looking for would be great.
The hardest part will be measuring/ testing the unity's responce. Links to this would be great also.
If you put the second speaker upside down an other, the HF units are vertically and very close to each other and comb-filtering is minimized; no big problem. (6 is not going to work or you would need to use a stack-able (line array) design)
Advantages of 4 speakers are that you can adjust the 'spread'/coverage (?) of the sound. (which is extra nice if you have very directional speakers) You have 4 less heavy boxes instead of 2 heavier. You can run both speakers from same amp channel (less heavy amp needed) or use separate amps and run the upper speakers,which point to the back of the audience, louder.
If you use a 12" driver as a mid woofer, you want to use a low crossover point because of the off axis response and thus will need bigger/expensive compression drivers, to go low enough but the top end will suffer. Which you won't notice that much at high sound levels as our hearing filters the top octave, but at lower sound levels and further away you will hear it.
I'd rather go for double 8" or even 4x6" and a tweeter in 1 enclosure.
For subs; I would use (double?) 12's or a 12 in a horn; no problem to cross at ~100Hz
//edit: if efficiency is key, go fully horn loaded. But make sure you can transport and carry them.
Last edited:
Do you have a link to that horn?
I really like the unity design, but IMO it is still quite an undertaking to get it right.
Do you want to use an all DC powered setup? Or regular ac and a sine wave inverter? Generator? Solar? (have a look at a Victron Multiplus and honda 2000/3000 generators)
4 way makes the (digital?) crossover and class D amps part a bit more complicated/expensive. What are your ideas about this?
Their set up
diyhifi.biz | DiY HiFi Solar Powered Sound System
The build progress
TH & Unity Horn 24v wind & solar system - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
Im thinking a passive 3 way crossover in the horn. Some kind of digital cross over for the sub on a different channel?
Its powered by battery on a 240v sine wave inverter. It has solar panels to top up over the day.
diyhifi.biz | DiY HiFi Solar Powered Sound System
The build progress
TH & Unity Horn 24v wind & solar system - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
Im thinking a passive 3 way crossover in the horn. Some kind of digital cross over for the sub on a different channel?
Its powered by battery on a 240v sine wave inverter. It has solar panels to top up over the day.
Looks nice, but that system is a lot bigger then for 100 people.
Their speaker placement is not good: subs spread a lot less then 2wavelengths a part, 4 tops spaced evenly in the horizontal plane.
Better put the subs together and the tops together in a vertical plane/ stacked to minimize comb-filtering effects.
Their speaker placement is not good: subs spread a lot less then 2wavelengths a part, 4 tops spaced evenly in the horizontal plane.
Better put the subs together and the tops together in a vertical plane/ stacked to minimize comb-filtering effects.
If you build a subwoofer for outdoor use with two 12" drivers that is vented, you will not even be able to hear it until the spider smacks the top plate. With no back wall you are losing 6dB of gain. Not being in a room you are losing at least 12dB of gain. I use a single Aura 1808 woofer in an 8cu ft enclose with a very large vent, per channel. Each sub has about 1,200W. It is barely adequate outdoors.
If the system has any passive crossover below about 500Hz, you are seriously compromising the sound quality. Biamp it with at least two amplifiers and an active crossover.
If the system has any passive crossover below about 500Hz, you are seriously compromising the sound quality. Biamp it with at least two amplifiers and an active crossover.
You will need about double output for 300 people compared to 100.
2 tops and subs are probably ok, but put the subs together or more then 15m/50" from each other. I did not find 1 picture with the speakers setup correctly......
//edit: and don't mix speakers like they do with subs.
@ Jack
Yes, outdoors you need double the amount of subs.
I could not find the specs for this Aura 1808 (car) woofer, but based on YouTube it seems to go pretty low; but that means it won't be very loud. A 12" driver in a box tuned@ ~40Hz will be about as loud as this 18"driver tuned for ~25Hz. The SS15 will be louder then several of either these boxes.
Bi-amp-ing at least the subs and tops is essential for power usage and sound quality.
// good read about bi amping Active Vs. Passive Crossovers
Last edited:
Shouldn't that be an earlier question? The design probably dictates that. If you have a choice I would go for 2 way and many small drivers and an x-over of 2200Hz or 5000Hz or higher.
Had to think of Nine 6.5" vs one 18" - Which do you think performs better? : diyaudio (used as subwoofer)
Had to think of Nine 6.5" vs one 18" - Which do you think performs better? : diyaudio (used as subwoofer)
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.