so you need to go from a 1/4" male to XLR male?
along with pin configuration XLR's have gender male and female (females are usually in's males are out's)
something like this should do https://canada.newark.com/neutrik/n...151&CATCI=pla-294680686006&CAAGID=23354969332
any luck identifying the mixer? no pic's you can upload?
along with pin configuration XLR's have gender male and female (females are usually in's males are out's)
something like this should do https://canada.newark.com/neutrik/n...151&CATCI=pla-294680686006&CAAGID=23354969332
any luck identifying the mixer? no pic's you can upload?
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manual says unbalanced. http://www.cerwinvega.com/manuals/pro/CVM-12241624FXUSBManualREVC.pdf
if you have reasonable solder skills, bulk mic line cable and connectors you could make your own line to feed your powered monitor.
ps sounds like the mixer needs love, sometimes a good cleaning and inspection can resolve a lot of issues and make it more reliable while waiting for budget dollars to come thru.
if you have reasonable solder skills, bulk mic line cable and connectors you could make your own line to feed your powered monitor.
ps sounds like the mixer needs love, sometimes a good cleaning and inspection can resolve a lot of issues and make it more reliable while waiting for budget dollars to come thru.
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Just for peace of mind
1) 60 ft is NOT a "long cable run" by any means.
Too much for a weak signal 500k impedance Guitar signal ... but you have strong 1V RMS out of that Aux Send and it´s quite low impedance, probably about 100 ohm since it certainly must come from an Op Amp output or better.
The point being you do NOT need XLR balanced cable there, just plain plug to plug shielded type.
2) the "magic" lies in balanced send at one end and balanced receive at the other, XLR connectors and matching cables by themselves will do nothing if you don´t feed them the proper blanced signal ... which you don´t have.
An "adaptor" will most probably connect pin 2 to plug hot and ground pins 1 and 3 together ... waste of time and $ in exchange of nothing.
IF you had a real long run, say 300 ft or more, *there* it would pay to add an unbalanced to balanced relatively expensive transformer at the Send end ... not really necessary here.
Thank you all for your very good advice, the budget turned out to be £600.00, not enough for some good quality gear, but this was the limit, no shows done this year, no money in the kitty.
So this is what I finished up with, a mixture of new and used equipment.
2 QTX 10 inch active speakers with stands and cables, Yamaha MG12XU mixing desk,
20M 8 way snake, 2 Behringer XM 8500 mics, for the keyboard 1 single passive DI box with a -20 db pad switch.
This mixing desk has TRS jack on the aux sends, purchased a 1/4 balanced jack to XLR connector for the powered monitor speaker, the used gear I had to decide quickly on buying, from these places called "Cash Exchange" but I was able to take items home and test before deciding, so far all working ok. Over budget by £85.00, but they can now go ahead with the 2 shows booked for December and next year will add a sub woofer.
So this is what I finished up with, a mixture of new and used equipment.
2 QTX 10 inch active speakers with stands and cables, Yamaha MG12XU mixing desk,
20M 8 way snake, 2 Behringer XM 8500 mics, for the keyboard 1 single passive DI box with a -20 db pad switch.
This mixing desk has TRS jack on the aux sends, purchased a 1/4 balanced jack to XLR connector for the powered monitor speaker, the used gear I had to decide quickly on buying, from these places called "Cash Exchange" but I was able to take items home and test before deciding, so far all working ok. Over budget by £85.00, but they can now go ahead with the 2 shows booked for December and next year will add a sub woofer.
Hi Turk 182,
It is a start, but I could not get any more money out of them, now there is a reasonable sound system, my next job is in getting the solo vocalist to use the mics correctly, so many of them are standing about 12-15 inches away. I did promise the group that I would do the two Christmas shows, next year they will need to listen to me, or they could be looking for some one else.
It is a start, but I could not get any more money out of them, now there is a reasonable sound system, my next job is in getting the solo vocalist to use the mics correctly, so many of them are standing about 12-15 inches away. I did promise the group that I would do the two Christmas shows, next year they will need to listen to me, or they could be looking for some one else.
drawing a hard line about what to do and how it should be done is always going to result in the other party thinking your decision to leave is correct.
one of the hottest topics in pro sound forums lately is all about "attitude" and approach in resolving issues.
one of the hardest things i've had to do in my career as a sound man is centered around the same sort of thing, finding simple explanations and easy to implement "solutions" when faced with performers with poor "mic" technique or their lack of understanding.
there may be reasons they are timid to approach an open mic or it could be that proximity to a mic stand is preventing the performer from using hand gestures and that may be vital to the visual aspect of the performance.
open dialogue, some collective brainstorming and the willingness to work together is key to resolving the problems that crop up, if the group comes to view you as the "guy that bitches about the gear and budget" instead of the "guy who invariably finds ways to make things better" what do think the odds of influencing them to spend new dollars on better gear are going to be?
one of the hottest topics in pro sound forums lately is all about "attitude" and approach in resolving issues.
one of the hardest things i've had to do in my career as a sound man is centered around the same sort of thing, finding simple explanations and easy to implement "solutions" when faced with performers with poor "mic" technique or their lack of understanding.
there may be reasons they are timid to approach an open mic or it could be that proximity to a mic stand is preventing the performer from using hand gestures and that may be vital to the visual aspect of the performance.
open dialogue, some collective brainstorming and the willingness to work together is key to resolving the problems that crop up, if the group comes to view you as the "guy that bitches about the gear and budget" instead of the "guy who invariably finds ways to make things better" what do think the odds of influencing them to spend new dollars on better gear are going to be?
Thank you turk 182 for your reply and I fully agree with all that you say, I do work closely with the director, producer and the choreographer, they too would like to see and hear their work a bit more polished.
Last week I got the quietest solo singer to perform her song 12 feet away from the remainder of the group, wearing headphones to hear the music, the mic gain was set and she was standing in her normal position ( to far from the mic ) I then asked the group to tell me when her voice was loud enough from the speakers, she started singing as I brought the volume up, I was still being asked to make it louder as it reached feedback, then restarted the song again with her close to the mic, no problem this time, plenty of head room and very loud.
less than 15 minuets later when another singer got up to do her number, she is over a foot from the mic, I beckoned her to come forward, just ignored me.
I shall take a tip from you and have a brainstorm session with them all, as they have two shows booked for December, I will leave it till the New Year so as not have them panic.
Last week I got the quietest solo singer to perform her song 12 feet away from the remainder of the group, wearing headphones to hear the music, the mic gain was set and she was standing in her normal position ( to far from the mic ) I then asked the group to tell me when her voice was loud enough from the speakers, she started singing as I brought the volume up, I was still being asked to make it louder as it reached feedback, then restarted the song again with her close to the mic, no problem this time, plenty of head room and very loud.
less than 15 minuets later when another singer got up to do her number, she is over a foot from the mic, I beckoned her to come forward, just ignored me.
I shall take a tip from you and have a brainstorm session with them all, as they have two shows booked for December, I will leave it till the New Year so as not have them panic.
the biggest thing that freaks most people out is "hearing" their voice from a distant source, the time difference and response changes from proximity effect are not easy to deal with...that's where experience on the part of performers helps.
if you can do anything to isolate or block the off axis sound from getting back to the performer it would help.
the other thing to look at and think about is mic type. shotgun and hypercardioid mic's can go a long way in capturing the "standoffish" performer or use this problem to make the case for good quality headset mic's they can't back off from those!
take the time to EQ carefully and try to develop some more clean headroom so you can "meet them half way" if they don't make the mark.
if you can do anything to isolate or block the off axis sound from getting back to the performer it would help.
the other thing to look at and think about is mic type. shotgun and hypercardioid mic's can go a long way in capturing the "standoffish" performer or use this problem to make the case for good quality headset mic's they can't back off from those!
take the time to EQ carefully and try to develop some more clean headroom so you can "meet them half way" if they don't make the mark.
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I know where I could borrow a couple of Rode NTG2 shotgun mics to try out, they can be picked up for about £165.00 each new, wireless headsets start at £160.00, for a very basic unknown brand then the sky is the limit. there is only the 3 band EQ on the mixing desk to work with, which does help, I am dealing with a very limited funding group, They enjoy what they do and it is for good causes, so I do want to help them as best I can, but they need to understand I cant do a good job unless they do a good job as well. It would seem that for many years it has always been the sound equipment getting the blame for the audio problems, now here I am trying to be very tactful, that its them as well.
trust me i understand what your going through and dealing with!
i'm spoiled and fussy i would want a 4 band Eq with mid sweeps!
refresh my memory what board do you have? if it's got channel inserts you could go the route of using a parametric or graphic to do fine notching for feedback elimination, and compression judiciously applied could help minimize gain/volume differences.
but yeah in the end it does come down the performers using the tools provided correctly!
i'm spoiled and fussy i would want a 4 band Eq with mid sweeps!
refresh my memory what board do you have? if it's got channel inserts you could go the route of using a parametric or graphic to do fine notching for feedback elimination, and compression judiciously applied could help minimize gain/volume differences.
but yeah in the end it does come down the performers using the tools provided correctly!
I have used shotgun mics before with limited success. They are very good at picking up structural vibrations and other low frequency noise. You can filter that out to some extent but it’s disconcerting the first time you hear it. I was using them at a dinner theatre setup with a portable stage. The plywood and metal stage resonated at low frequencies and I ended up with the mic stands on the floor right in front of the stage. Shotgun mics are very directional and this is good and bad. Good if the performer stands still, bad if they like to move around or stand in the wrong spot to sing etc. The best setup for us has been wireless mics. With the mic close to the singers mouth you get more output with less ambient noise and feedback is much less likely to happen. It’s also a lot neater on the stage for the performers, with no mic stands and cables to avoid. For the audience it gives them a clear view of the performers. Have fun with it! Every venue and group are different and as you gain experience you will figure out what works for your situation.
I am doing sound for a Christmas concert on Dec 16 in our church sanctuary. Seating capacity is 280 and the acoustics are pretty good. I hope they have a rehearsal so there won’t be any surprises. Like the time 2 guys showed up 5 minutes after the concert started with electric guitars that had to be plumbed into the already set up mix.
P.S. Rehearsals are vital to getting good sound on the performance night. Don’t let the performers rush through and leave without having the sound setup sorted.
I am doing sound for a Christmas concert on Dec 16 in our church sanctuary. Seating capacity is 280 and the acoustics are pretty good. I hope they have a rehearsal so there won’t be any surprises. Like the time 2 guys showed up 5 minutes after the concert started with electric guitars that had to be plumbed into the already set up mix.
P.S. Rehearsals are vital to getting good sound on the performance night. Don’t let the performers rush through and leave without having the sound setup sorted.
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The mixer now, is a Yamaha MG122XU, the sound system although basic, is ok it's just getting them close enough to the mics, there is one point where all 21 of them are on stage standing in 3 lines of 7 doing 3 numbers standing in a straight line behind each other, I have had to mark the stage so that each person is looking over the left shoulder of the person in front of them on the left line and the right line look over the right shoulder of the person in front to get a "V" pattern, the centre line look over a alternate shoulders of people in front to get a staggered line facing front. If they all sing
up loud, the 3 mics should be able to give me enough gain to do the job.
This is a busy time for me as I have bookings to video 2 Christmas shows before Christmas, which I do go along to a couple of those rehearsals etc. It's a challenge, but it keeps me going.
up loud, the 3 mics should be able to give me enough gain to do the job.
This is a busy time for me as I have bookings to video 2 Christmas shows before Christmas, which I do go along to a couple of those rehearsals etc. It's a challenge, but it keeps me going.
If you get 21 people singing at the top of their voice you likely won’t need as much gain on the mics unless you have a really large venue. One thing to watch out for is vocalists who are inexperiened and hold back their voice when they know they have the mic. Your choral director should be on top of that issue.
In reply to turk 182, the mics are about 2 feet from the middle of the sound source and just about 6ft apart. As Bfpca says if they all sing up, should be ok.
I have tried talking to them about use of the mic in a group, now I'm watching each solo
singer and having a one to one on the subject, one more rehearsal and then the show this Friday and Saturday evenings.
I have tried talking to them about use of the mic in a group, now I'm watching each solo
singer and having a one to one on the subject, one more rehearsal and then the show this Friday and Saturday evenings.
Thanks for the link, very interesting reading I shall keep that link in a safe place, the group don't have anything to use for a XY set up, there is a mic 6 feet either side of a centre one, giving me 3 mics across the stage, to use when they are all singing, I should have explained the positioning more clearly in my last post, if they sing in unison and loud like they have been doing in the last couple of rehearsals, it should be enough.
shame the mixer your using doesn't have phase rev/polarity inv switching with three mic's at a distance from each other i'd invert the middle mic and pan the other two towards their respective l/r positions (not hard pan mind you. are you stereo for mains or just mono?) i've done that before to good success and something you should try at a rehearsal, summing sources from three mic's at a distance with high gain like needed to capture a choir is no easy task and keeping the ever increasing odds of feedback at bay becomes a race to find the culprit.
if you have opportunity to try it, try placing all your mics as close together as you can (assuming round Atlas style based mic stands) you should be able to get them wthin 8-10 inch apart that would push response nulls up and give you smoother midrange capture, let me know if it gets you a better result.
sorry refresh my memory what do you have for mic's?
if you have opportunity to try it, try placing all your mics as close together as you can (assuming round Atlas style based mic stands) you should be able to get them wthin 8-10 inch apart that would push response nulls up and give you smoother midrange capture, let me know if it gets you a better result.
sorry refresh my memory what do you have for mic's?
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