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PA Speakers - moving to a passive crossover
PA Speakers - moving to a passive crossover
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Old 13th August 2018, 07:37 AM   #11
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Hi Tom,

With regards to just buying a pair of active PA speakers, sure, I could do that. The RCF TTL-6A looks promising, and would probably go a couple of dB louder than the cabinets I have at the moment. They're also much bigger than my cabinets, and weigh twice as much.
This is DIY Audio, not Buy-It-From-RCF Audio.

I like the cabinets I have. You can do this: YouTube
with one per side, and the finish is just how I like it.

I'm not a complete amateur at this. I just think passive crossovers and a better amplifier will be the next system upgrade for me. Good passive crossovers are possible, and better amplification is certainly possible. What's the problem?

Chris
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Old 13th August 2018, 09:09 PM   #12
ViennaTom is offline ViennaTom
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Chris,

it is impossible to judge a sound system through a youtube video.
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Old 13th August 2018, 09:48 PM   #13
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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if i was going to play recorded music (i.e. Dj) then i would ok with passive x-overs but for live sound, analog bi-amp or tri-amp with sweepable filters and variable notch would be the lowest i would go for crossover duties.
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Old 13th August 2018, 09:55 PM   #14
conanski is offline conanski  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
I'm not so sure passive crossovers are such a downgrade if they're done properly. I don't know if the crossover I've set out above is the best way to do things, but it looks pretty good to me.
Cabinets like the Danley SH46 are entirely passive, and get glowing reviews from users.
That is a superior speaker design though with mechanically optimized drivers .. they all feed a single horn to produce a coherent wavefront, that is a big part of what sets this speaker apart. I bet they would like to offer an active version but the speaker design doesn't lend itself to that and it would significantly impact cost and size of the product. No offence intended towards your work here I'm just comparing a standard PA design to a Synergy horn.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
It won't be easy to make a passive crossover that good, and I plan a lot of testing to make sure I've got the active crossover beat.
You have your work cut out for sure, speaking as someone that has come at this same problem from the other direction... I have some speakers(standard 12+1 reflex) that I designed as passive for simplicity(surprise) and I'm looking at ways to improve them with DSP and discrete amplification. I have tweaked the crossovers several times and have yet to come close to replicating what I can accomplish in 5 minutes with a DSP processor and a 2 channel power amp, I am an enthuastic DIYer but I'm no expert. I have other passive speakers that are powered and processed via a couple small racks of equipment and they produce vastly superior sound IMO but I don't want to go that route with these as they were designed with neo drivers to be light and easy to move, so a DSP equipped plate amp seems to be the most logical next step in my case. I also own a variety of modern brand name powered PA speakers that I use quite frequently and have come to appreciate the benefits they provide.

I think one of the things you may be overlooking is the size and weight of the passive components required for your project, I know the passive crossover added significant weight to my speakers.

All that said I do wish you luck, if nothing else it's a great learning experience, if you have more time and patience than I do maybe you will be able to match or exceed the current performance, it will take more time than you think though.
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Old 13th August 2018, 10:42 PM   #15
Tromperie is offline Tromperie  Australia
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@kevinkr
Quote:
The difference in performance is fairly staggering
Despite converts saying this regularly, the 'militant passives' refuse to even acknowledge the possibility. Their loss.
__________________
Source: Daphile on old PC from the tip * Storage NAS: FreeNAS 11 * Pre-amp: DIY PGA2310 * Amps: 8 x LM3886TF
Xover: 24dB @ 300 and 3,000Hz * Speakers: DIY design CNC cut 54 laminations * Drivers SB 10", SB 5", VIFA 1" VTG
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Old 13th August 2018, 11:37 PM   #16
ViennaTom is offline ViennaTom
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What amp you have for the 15s? Just out of curiosity...
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:31 AM   #17
ErnieM is offline ErnieM  United States
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Find a small amp for the highs...or a QSC PLD4.5? Have had good success with mine.
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Old 14th August 2018, 11:46 PM   #18
ViennaTom is offline ViennaTom
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@Tromp: What kind of performance difference is so "staggering" when going active?

As I understand it, Chris just wants to get rid of one AD-DA conversion and of all it's detrimental effects like noise, nonlinearity, distortion, rounding errors, etc...
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Old 15th August 2018, 03:32 AM   #19
Tromperie is offline Tromperie  Australia
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Quote:
What kind of performance difference is so "staggering" when going active?
I was quoting kevinkr, as you see, and advising of my experience. My point was that active is superior and, in reply, the claim of "detrimental effects like noise, nonlinearity, distortion, rounding errors, etc..." is grossly overstated.
__________________
Source: Daphile on old PC from the tip * Storage NAS: FreeNAS 11 * Pre-amp: DIY PGA2310 * Amps: 8 x LM3886TF
Xover: 24dB @ 300 and 3,000Hz * Speakers: DIY design CNC cut 54 laminations * Drivers SB 10", SB 5", VIFA 1" VTG
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Old 15th August 2018, 11:20 PM   #20
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Hi Chris,

Passive? No way, my friend.

TD is a ******** genius at visualizing the entire electrical and acoustic interrelationship between passbands, driver selection, box construction, port locations in horn etc....

You gonna duplicate that without digging deep, starting over, all the way down?

And if you do design from ground zero, remember...you still have limiting to lay on top of the individual passbands....otherwise you're left simply triggering off the time interval implied by highest freq you need to protect, ....for the whole dang box ! ...

Seriously, screw passive....
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