I'm currently running 2 Behringer iNuke amplifiers, one NU4-6000 and one NU6000DSP. I am using a Logitech Bluetooth Audio Adapter plugged into a ROLLS MB15b Promatch to take the signal from -10db to +4, then (gulp) splitting it with Y's until I have my 6 needed outputs. I'm sure this is not the correct way, but when I emailed Behringer with my situation, they did not have much of a recommendation other than a $500 mixing table.
I use my laptop to play music through, and I'd like to keep the bluetooth functionality so I am not tethered to the stereo. I am about to add an additional iNuke NU6000DSP, so I will need 2 more outputs for a total of 8.
Please let me know what would be the right way to do this, I'm not opposed to spending $500, it was just out of the budget at the time. I would love to hear why what I'm doing is wrong, and why your recommendation will work better. I am very curious and just have no knowledge on these kind of amplifiers. Mostly car audio and just starting to dip my toes into home audio.
I use my laptop to play music through, and I'd like to keep the bluetooth functionality so I am not tethered to the stereo. I am about to add an additional iNuke NU6000DSP, so I will need 2 more outputs for a total of 8.
Please let me know what would be the right way to do this, I'm not opposed to spending $500, it was just out of the budget at the time. I would love to hear why what I'm doing is wrong, and why your recommendation will work better. I am very curious and just have no knowledge on these kind of amplifiers. Mostly car audio and just starting to dip my toes into home audio.
You don't need a $500 mixer, but how about a $99 mixer?
I own one of these:
Behringer Ultralink PRO MX882 Rackmount Mixer / Splitter | Sweetwater
It is a mixer/splitter, which means it can be used either way. As a mixer, 8 channels in mix to one out. And in splitter mode, one channel in becomes 8 out.
The master section is stereo and has panning, but the channels are mono. So to get stereo through it, you'd need two of their channels panned left and right to get stereo. This unit has enough chanels for four stereo outputs.
Two of these linked would get you up to 8 stereo channels, enough for four stereo amps. I am sure ther are other splitters and distribution amps available, but this is the sort of thing I see as a solution for you, rather than a ton of Y-cords.
I own one of these:
Behringer Ultralink PRO MX882 Rackmount Mixer / Splitter | Sweetwater
It is a mixer/splitter, which means it can be used either way. As a mixer, 8 channels in mix to one out. And in splitter mode, one channel in becomes 8 out.
The master section is stereo and has panning, but the channels are mono. So to get stereo through it, you'd need two of their channels panned left and right to get stereo. This unit has enough chanels for four stereo outputs.
Two of these linked would get you up to 8 stereo channels, enough for four stereo amps. I am sure ther are other splitters and distribution amps available, but this is the sort of thing I see as a solution for you, rather than a ton of Y-cords.
Logitech Bluetooth Audio Receiver for Wireless Streaming
That is the bluetooth receiver. I don't really understand signal gain, I'm not sure what level the signal exits this receiver.
That is the bluetooth receiver. I don't really understand signal gain, I'm not sure what level the signal exits this receiver.
I emailed Behringer again and got a different recommendation this time. They recommended their DS28000 splitter or their MX882 mixer.
They said the mixer has balance and pan adjustments. Not sure if this matters or not.
I am having trouble with the gain concept. If my phone or laptop is sending the signal to the receiver, is the phone/laptop creating the initial "gain"? How do you measure the gain on devices? Or when using Bluetooth is my phone/laptop just sending an unamplified signal to the receiver, which sends an unamplified signal to the splitter, which sends an unamplified signal to the amplifier?
I'm lost.
They said the mixer has balance and pan adjustments. Not sure if this matters or not.
I am having trouble with the gain concept. If my phone or laptop is sending the signal to the receiver, is the phone/laptop creating the initial "gain"? How do you measure the gain on devices? Or when using Bluetooth is my phone/laptop just sending an unamplified signal to the receiver, which sends an unamplified signal to the splitter, which sends an unamplified signal to the amplifier?
I'm lost.
It would probably help to describe what you are trying to do and accomplish.
That is quite a bit of power but with no type of control or management of it.
(Even the most basic home stereos have a pre-amp of some kind before the power amps)
You will have a total of 8 high-power channels of amplification -are you running 8 full-range channels or are some doing subwoofers, mid/highs or delay/surround duty?
Mitch,
1) The NU4-6000 inputs are 10kohm unbalanced, 20kohm balanced, in either case Y's should not be a problem with each side of the MB15b driving 4 channels. You can select "mono" on the "mode switch" to connect a pair of inputs and use half the "Y" cords. Note that "Bridge" is different than "mono".
2)Pan is short for "panorama", bringing up level on one side while reducing it on the other- you can do that with the gain (volume) controls on your amplifiers.
3)"Gain" is an increase in level, for instance -10 dB to +4 dB is a gain of 14 dB.
A +3 dB gain in level doubles power, a 10 dB increase is a x10 increase in power.
It takes about a 10 dB increase (gain) in SPL to "sound" twice as loud.
Your amplifier has input LEDs that will indicate -24dB, -12dB, -6dB and 0dB (maximum power/voltage/limit).
The NU4-6000 amp puts out about 60 volts/440 watts into 8 ohms when the top red light (0dB) ignites, about 4 times (+6dB) more power than your "floor standers" are rated for ;^).
4)Gain is measured in decibels (dB), "deci" meaning 10, "Bell" named after Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone and the basis of modern sound convention.
Amplifiers provide voltage gain, .775 volts (0dBu) input to one channel of the NU4-6000 results in about 60 volts output.
5)In the Bluetooth/phone/laptop, the signals are digital, then converted to analog somewhere. 0dBFS would be the "full scale" maximum signal, everything is attenuated (reduced, cut, gain lowered) beneath 0dBFS, so there is not any "amplification" going on as there would be in an low level analog signal such as a microphone, a tape head, or a turntable cartridge being pre-amplified from -60 dB all the way to a nominal "-10" "consumer" level or a "+4" "professional" level.
6)No, you're just in South Dakota- though found that feeling common there ;^).
Art
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I am a bass junky, so 4 of the channels will be dedicated to the subwoofers. The other 4 channels go to the tower speakers for "the rest". I understand that this forum seems to be interested in sound quality, but this is just an excessively large shop stereo for jamming out while working so I can keep my mind at bay.
The control/management part is what I'm trying to understand. What I need, if I need it, etc etc. I'm not trying to make this produce perfectly orchestrated music, more along the lines of no distortion, clear mids/highs, and lots of SPL.
Often times I'm wearing earplugs due to running grinders and other loud tools, so that's part of the reason I need it loud. The other reason is that sometimes I just need the extra SPL to shut down my mind and let me focus on what I'm doing, as odd as it sounds.Lastly, I do love plain old ground shaking bass. It's not always at that level, but I like knowing I can get it there if I want it.
I would like to add that this is definitely the type of post I was looking for. I'm slowly starting to understand. I may do the splitter, it seems like an easy way to adjust each channel and just keep things a bit cleaner.
Would I still benefit from the Rolls "amplifier" or will the splitter do that with the ability to adjust gains?
If you didn't use the rolls amplifier or a splitter, would the power amplifier still be able to use the signal coming out of the bluetooth or would it not be able to amplify the bluetooth signal? Maybe I'm still missing something...
There's a possibility it may not have enough output even at full volume to drive the amplifiers to their full output.
I cannot find the needed spec online for what voltage sensitivity the amp has, nor is their any accurate output level specs for the Logitech device.
So I would recommend using that Rolls device.
-And you shouldn't have any issues splitting the XLR line outputs 4-ways.
My "shop rig" is a collection of all my lesser-used gear (concert PA) so lots of older small amps running multiple tri-amped speakers. I haven't looked in a while but I'm probably splitting my XLR crossover outputs more times than you are and there's no issues.
Mitch,
1) Read the specification or user manual of the "splitter" to determine it's capabilities.
2) AFAIK, "Bluetooth" is a wireless transmission of a digital signal. Digital signals are "1"s and "0", they are not amplified per se.
3) An "excessive" amount of inputs driven from the Rolls outputs would result in an insufficient amount of gain to drive the amplifier input to full, .775 V, 0dBU. The Rolls 100 ohm max +12 dB unbalanced output probably could drive well over a dozen 10kOhm .775 V, 0dBU amplifier inputs past "full tilt boogie".
4) The Rolls is all analog, no analog to digital conversion.
1/8" TRS "headphone" outputs are analog, driven from an A/D (analog to digital) converter.
Study "Gain Structure" and "A/D", "D/A".
Good luck, have fun, use ear protection..!
Art
Alright, I'm starting to (cough) understand. My phone is creating a digital signal, sending it via Bluetooth to my Bluetooth adapter, which converts it to an analog signal. The analog signal goes into my Rolls, where I can adjust the gain to my (future) splitter, which will allow more gain adjustment and split the signal to my amplifiers.
My questions that have come from the latest learning are this...
A. The Bluetooth adapter is my digital to analog converter. Is there any gain involved in this process?
B. I have a Steve Meade Designs Digital Distortion Meter. Could I use this to set gains step by step? IE, play test track and turn up Rolls until clipping is detected, turn back a bit, then move on to my amp lifters and do the same?
I feel like I'm getting closer...
My questions that have come from the latest learning are this...
A. The Bluetooth adapter is my digital to analog converter. Is there any gain involved in this process?
B. I have a Steve Meade Designs Digital Distortion Meter. Could I use this to set gains step by step? IE, play test track and turn up Rolls until clipping is detected, turn back a bit, then move on to my amp lifters and do the same?
I feel like I'm getting closer...
Yes.
No. But the analog signal can clip too. And if the digital part clips, the clipping is in every single part of the chain too.
Yes.
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