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What range should kickbins carry ?
What range should kickbins carry ?
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:19 PM   #1
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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What range should kickbins carry ?
Default What range should kickbins carry ?

just wondering what range they normally carry and their crossover points. Does anyone here have a hornresp approximation of CUBO Kick 12 and 15 so it might be compared to HD15?
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:38 PM   #2
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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They carry whatever range is necessary to integrate with the rest of the system.

Usually somewhere from 60-120Hz up to 150-300Hz. A smaller mid-high section will mandate a higher crossover.

Nexo Alpha (IMO an excellent implementation of a four-way mostly-horn-loaded PA system) crosses at 250Hz from kicks to mids, and is user-selectable for 60, 80, or 100Hz for the bottom end. There's also the option to run the 15" kicks down to 40Hz, albeit with reduced headroom, for when you don't want/need the double-18" subs. Selecting the crossover for the bottom end has more to do with the ratio of subs to kicks. Lots of subs - go for 100Hz. Lots of kicks - go for 60Hz, to give the band with fewer cabinets less work to do.

Chris
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Old 8th December 2017, 08:39 PM   #3
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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What range should kickbins carry ?
Thank you very much for that overview. What did one do in the 1940's -50's and early 1960's for portable sound reinforcement?
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Old 8th December 2017, 11:25 PM   #4
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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For that sort of era, I'm not so sure. Woodstock (1969) is reasonably well documented for a large-scale system, but smaller events would likely have been a couple of 4x12" column speakers driven by tens of watts. The 12"s often had whizzer cones and did a reasonable job running 80Hz up to a few kHz.

This might be of interest: Sears Silvertone Sound Systems 1940 | Preservation Sound

Music has certainly got louder over the years.

Chris
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Old 9th December 2017, 01:31 AM   #5
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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I run my kickbins from 55 to 110 Hz.
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Old 9th December 2017, 02:11 AM   #6
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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I guess it really depends on what the cab is used for. 55 to 110 sounds like a true "kick"' where you use them to put out a lot of output where the majority of the energy is concentrated. Or if they are more of a "low mid" in a balanced 4 way system, you would run a wider range. It takes a different kind of cab for the different application. The HD15 is a true kick - would make a positively awful bottom of a 3 way.

I am in the process of building new low mids that will play higher cleaner than the prior design used in the "Clusterf****s", as well as being amenable to either line arraying or conventional splaying for wide pattern. It's a folded horn that's not rectangular. Have to think outside the box. The old horns sounded pretty ratty when crossed above about 300 regardless of how they are stacked , but have a hell of a "kick". Most of the little TH's or reflex horns are going to run up against similar upper end limits.
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Old 9th December 2017, 04:29 AM   #7
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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It`s a 3 way system. 12 inch fullrangers closed for highs. 12 inch ported subs for kick. 12 inch high excursion subs 6th order bp for 28 to 55 Hz.
Thinking outside the box is always good especially when designing boxes.
If I have more money some day I will go horn also.
My enclosures are also not rectangular.
I have good experiences with triangle shape.
Sound waves seem to like 45 degrees angle somehow.
In enclosure design there is still a lot to be discovered by trial and error.
Need a good driver and quite some time.
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Old 10th December 2017, 01:50 PM   #8
Rademakers is offline Rademakers  Netherlands
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To me "kick" is 80 - 300 Hz, which is also the reason the HD15 is superior below 100 Hz but I didn't measure that.

Back in the design stage I build a HD15 and the low section of a Xtro to compare the Cubo Kicks to. This is the prototype of Cubo Kick 12 prior to the published design (which extends the top end) versus the HD15. Note that the 15ND930 has a very low Qts, whereas the Kappa 15LF (from the original simulation) has a much higher Qts, which is probably responsible for a peak, where you now see a dip in the frequency response.

Johan
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File Type: png Cubo Kick Small vs HD15.png (18.6 KB, 106 views)
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Old 11th December 2017, 09:40 AM   #9
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
Thank you very much for that overview. What did one do in the 1940's -50's and early 1960's for portable sound reinforcement?
Click the image to open in full size.
this is what portable sound reinforcement consisted of in the 40's and 50's

Last edited by turk 182; 11th December 2017 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 18th December 2017, 01:59 PM   #10
USRFobiwan is offline USRFobiwan
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What range should kickbins carry ?
On the pro-sound website you can find some interesting articles about PA history:
History of PA part 1
History of PA part 2
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