I'm wanting to build a compact but reasonably powerful pair of cabinets. I currently have a pair of selenium d220 compression drivers and would like recommendations on a good 10" woofer to use under them. I have found but have no experience with,
B&C 10nw64
18sound 10nw650
paudio sn10mb
Ta Greg
B&C 10nw64
18sound 10nw650
paudio sn10mb
Ta Greg
What do you consider 'reasonably powerful'? That CD can approach 135dB so there are no limits there. Getting even a stellar 10" to go to even 125dB will take a lot of juice. (97dB with 1000w = 127dB)
What are you hoping it to compare to in size and performance? Are there any commercial speakers you have experience with you could reference your requirements to?
If you want to go 'fairly powerful' (around 120dB) then you're spoilt for choice, and honestly the Selenium CD and the horn you attach it to will end up being the bottleneck, not for output, but for quality. Not that it's so bad but it's a fairly budget option, so you might want to match it with a budget driver.
But if you want to go 'loud', (125-130dB) then you have to pay more, and/or consider a 12" option, and in either case you would need a powerful amplifier (1000-2000w per channel)
The BMS 12n803 would be the dream option for a compact midtop, http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmi...cones_neodymium/bms_12n803_t_data_2011-10.pdf offering up to 129dB in a 20 litre enclosure, but it costs twice as much as any of the options you listed, and needs 2200 watts per channel to reach that level. Not beyond the means of a lightweight and fairly budget Behringer iNuke class D amp though.
FaitalPro can go a little bit louder simply because they offer some high powered 12" with 12.45mm excursion, but they're only a few quid less than the BMS, and for quality you're better off with BMS (who unfortunately don't offer any 10" woofers).
You don't desperately want to be driving your woofers that far into excursion when they're responsible for a large part of your vocals anyway, so the less your cone is actually moving at the volume you require, the better.
The Faital 10HP1020 is about 200 Euros and can go seriously loud in an absolutely tiny box. 125dB in a 9 litre enclosure, but again it's extremely power hungry. 2200 watts to reach that level, and, somewhat unbelievably per the spec sheet you can actually feed it that much in carefully limited peaks (it's rated at 1400w program 2800w peak).
However the BMS12 I mentioned, in a slightly larger but still very compact 20 litre enclosure, can produce the same level, 125dB, with just 800w of amp power (so again the Behringer iNuke may be suitable, but the cheaper, 1000w per channel version instead of the 3000w per channel one), and it will only be running at 5.75mm out of it's 9.3mm excursion capacity, which means much less distortion when running full tilt, and it's a much higher quality woofer to begin with.
The BMS is rated at 4000w peak, and obviously you would never be putting close to that much into it, but it also means it'll perform excellently at a lower 800-1000w power level, due to lower power compression losses. This could translate to as much as +2dB long term SPL versus some lower powered alternatives.
I found it for sale at a bargain price on this Bulgarian web retailer, BMS 12N803 | 12 inch | Високоговорители | Професионално аудио | Продукти
It translates to around 225 Euros. The cheapest this driver is available in the UK for is 300 Euros, so even if you're importing to Australia it's still cheap. Not cheap, obviously, but for what it is? A bargain.
Edit: Disclaimer - this post is riddled with assumptions and hyperbole which I hope you can look past and have a look at the woofers yourself without paying heed to any of my waffle.
What are you hoping it to compare to in size and performance? Are there any commercial speakers you have experience with you could reference your requirements to?
If you want to go 'fairly powerful' (around 120dB) then you're spoilt for choice, and honestly the Selenium CD and the horn you attach it to will end up being the bottleneck, not for output, but for quality. Not that it's so bad but it's a fairly budget option, so you might want to match it with a budget driver.
But if you want to go 'loud', (125-130dB) then you have to pay more, and/or consider a 12" option, and in either case you would need a powerful amplifier (1000-2000w per channel)
The BMS 12n803 would be the dream option for a compact midtop, http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmi...cones_neodymium/bms_12n803_t_data_2011-10.pdf offering up to 129dB in a 20 litre enclosure, but it costs twice as much as any of the options you listed, and needs 2200 watts per channel to reach that level. Not beyond the means of a lightweight and fairly budget Behringer iNuke class D amp though.
FaitalPro can go a little bit louder simply because they offer some high powered 12" with 12.45mm excursion, but they're only a few quid less than the BMS, and for quality you're better off with BMS (who unfortunately don't offer any 10" woofers).
You don't desperately want to be driving your woofers that far into excursion when they're responsible for a large part of your vocals anyway, so the less your cone is actually moving at the volume you require, the better.
The Faital 10HP1020 is about 200 Euros and can go seriously loud in an absolutely tiny box. 125dB in a 9 litre enclosure, but again it's extremely power hungry. 2200 watts to reach that level, and, somewhat unbelievably per the spec sheet you can actually feed it that much in carefully limited peaks (it's rated at 1400w program 2800w peak).
However the BMS12 I mentioned, in a slightly larger but still very compact 20 litre enclosure, can produce the same level, 125dB, with just 800w of amp power (so again the Behringer iNuke may be suitable, but the cheaper, 1000w per channel version instead of the 3000w per channel one), and it will only be running at 5.75mm out of it's 9.3mm excursion capacity, which means much less distortion when running full tilt, and it's a much higher quality woofer to begin with.
The BMS is rated at 4000w peak, and obviously you would never be putting close to that much into it, but it also means it'll perform excellently at a lower 800-1000w power level, due to lower power compression losses. This could translate to as much as +2dB long term SPL versus some lower powered alternatives.
I found it for sale at a bargain price on this Bulgarian web retailer, BMS 12N803 | 12 inch | Високоговорители | Професионално аудио | Продукти
It translates to around 225 Euros. The cheapest this driver is available in the UK for is 300 Euros, so even if you're importing to Australia it's still cheap. Not cheap, obviously, but for what it is? A bargain.
Edit: Disclaimer - this post is riddled with assumptions and hyperbole which I hope you can look past and have a look at the woofers yourself without paying heed to any of my waffle.
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To be perfectly honest, I found a set of four of them on eBay, and made an offer and it was accepted. I was looking for top-end 10-12" PA drivers and got those. Demodulation rings are a Good Thing (TM) in my opinion - it's a good method for reducing one of the bigger contributors of distortion. I haven't tried the 10FH500 (same driver, no demodulation), but I can say the 10FH520s are excellent.
I've put a live band (including kick drum and bass guitar) through those tops, with two ports blocked for a 60Hz tuning frequency. Lighting up the -6dB light on the NU6000 regularly, they were enough to keep up with a loud (moderately deaf) drummer, with a good amount of "feel" to the kick drum and bass guitar.
I'm considering downsizing the tops to a 1x10" + horn per side, with the option to add a second 10" for bigger events. Most of the time, I don't light up the -6dB light on the amp, meaning I can get away with smaller boxes for those gigs.
Chris
Well after much debating i went with the paudio sn10mb mk2 drivers as they where available locally and a good price too. if im not happy with them l will probably go with the faital 10fh520. I got about an hour of listening this afternoon to one cabinet and I was quite impressed, Im using a dcx2496 crossover to play with slopes and crossover points, so far ive tried 1.8k LR24 and it sounded great I had about 13db cut on the d220 compression driver. more testing to come before i attempt a passive crossover. cabinet tuning was to fs which is 70hz and the cabinet is around 21lt.
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Its been over a year since i started this project and i have only just finished. I changed the selenium d220 out for a prv d290py-s with polymide diaphragm. The results are great im very happy with the sound now. despite the small size these speakers really pack a punch and can be used stand alone or with subs. I was also very please with the duratex paint.
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Hey Greg,
I have built 4 similar cabs, also using the Selenium D220, a few years ago. I quickly built some passive crossovers for these cabs, and I had planned on optimizing the crossovers later. But so far I have just never gotten around to doing it as they sound pretty decent already.
Would you minds sharing your crossover design? I have a ****-load of inductors/resistors/capaciors laying around, and I would be interested in building one your versions for comparison.
Great looking cab by the way.
Thanks
I have built 4 similar cabs, also using the Selenium D220, a few years ago. I quickly built some passive crossovers for these cabs, and I had planned on optimizing the crossovers later. But so far I have just never gotten around to doing it as they sound pretty decent already.
Would you minds sharing your crossover design? I have a ****-load of inductors/resistors/capaciors laying around, and I would be interested in building one your versions for comparison.
Great looking cab by the way.
Thanks
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