I was wondering if anyone on here knows a good way to solve the problem of singers using guitar pedals for vocal effects In a live setting. For example, a 58 with a 1/4 adaptor going into a boss delay pedal coming out into a DI. The output is always low, noisy, compressed. Is it just an impedance issue? Does anyone know of a product or built anything to help with this problem?
Try putting the effect pedal in the insert loop on the mic channel of the mixer.
Or use aq mic preamp to boost the signal before the effect.
A large part of the problem is that the signal leaving the microphone is less than 1/10 the amount of signal leaving a guitar. That means you have to turn things up to get levels, and the signal is much closer to the noise floor than a guitar would be.
Or use aq mic preamp to boost the signal before the effect.
A large part of the problem is that the signal leaving the microphone is less than 1/10 the amount of signal leaving a guitar. That means you have to turn things up to get levels, and the signal is much closer to the noise floor than a guitar would be.
Enzo,
Thanks for your response. I have had good luck with running pedals through the desk like an outboard effect, but there is never enough time to do that for every artist. Also many artist are starting to bring their own effects so they can change the parameters of the effect as the performance unfolds, so they need to have access to the unit. It's not unusual that i am mixing 4 different bands in a night with each band having 2 or 3 singers all running vocals through guitar pedals. The result is me spending all my time trying to get level in the monitors, fighting feedback and artist grief with little time to actually perfect the mix. I need a silver bullet device that can be set up very quickly. One that can match the impedance and boost signal without distortion to send to a DI.
Thanks for your response. I have had good luck with running pedals through the desk like an outboard effect, but there is never enough time to do that for every artist. Also many artist are starting to bring their own effects so they can change the parameters of the effect as the performance unfolds, so they need to have access to the unit. It's not unusual that i am mixing 4 different bands in a night with each band having 2 or 3 singers all running vocals through guitar pedals. The result is me spending all my time trying to get level in the monitors, fighting feedback and artist grief with little time to actually perfect the mix. I need a silver bullet device that can be set up very quickly. One that can match the impedance and boost signal without distortion to send to a DI.
Imagine you are a busy restaurant. All of a sudden a group of people start coming in for dinner. One is peanut intolerant, another eats only Kosher and his friend only halal. Two are vegans. ANother allergic to strawberries, and throw in a few others, what the heck. WOuld your kitchen be able to cover all those things? WOuld there be one magic dish that would cover them all?
If you knew specifics ahead of time it would not be difficult to cover all those. But at the spur of the moment?
So I applaud your desire to be instantly ready for all comers, but perhaps we ought to make some ground rules for special microphone processing, so we can be ready. Perhaps if the signer wants to use the same pedal for both vocals and guitar - at different times during the set - it is time to have two of the pedals. One for him and one for the mixer. Now there will be no fumbling on the stage floor between songs, no scrambling at the mixer to set it up.
And you are a professional soundman? OK, they guy wants to use his Boss delay on the mic? Is it really so unique you cannot offer a delay from the mixer FX that does the same? If he needs to match tempo, can he not trust you to catch the timing?
SOmetimes the band has to meet you in the middle. Van Halen and Led Zeppelin can demand certain color M&Ms or bottled water. I have to think your four bands a night guys are not quite at that level yet.
Are the two or three singers with FX pedal vocals using the same type FX units? In other words you might be able to use one FX unit for all of them. Maybe free up an AUX or even a sub group, and run that through an FX pedal, and when it is needed, flip over to that AUX instead of direct into mix.
And as I suggested, try a mic pre. There are small inexpensive ones like the ART, Behringer, or similar. They start under $50. Put one between mic and pedal, and it ought to raise signal level to something more useful to the pedal. of course the signal leaving the pedal might be hotter now, so be ready to deal with that.
I just looked at selection at Sweetwater. Search mic preamp, single channel, sort by price. I am sure Musicians Friend has similar selection.
If you knew specifics ahead of time it would not be difficult to cover all those. But at the spur of the moment?
So I applaud your desire to be instantly ready for all comers, but perhaps we ought to make some ground rules for special microphone processing, so we can be ready. Perhaps if the signer wants to use the same pedal for both vocals and guitar - at different times during the set - it is time to have two of the pedals. One for him and one for the mixer. Now there will be no fumbling on the stage floor between songs, no scrambling at the mixer to set it up.
And you are a professional soundman? OK, they guy wants to use his Boss delay on the mic? Is it really so unique you cannot offer a delay from the mixer FX that does the same? If he needs to match tempo, can he not trust you to catch the timing?
SOmetimes the band has to meet you in the middle. Van Halen and Led Zeppelin can demand certain color M&Ms or bottled water. I have to think your four bands a night guys are not quite at that level yet.
Are the two or three singers with FX pedal vocals using the same type FX units? In other words you might be able to use one FX unit for all of them. Maybe free up an AUX or even a sub group, and run that through an FX pedal, and when it is needed, flip over to that AUX instead of direct into mix.
And as I suggested, try a mic pre. There are small inexpensive ones like the ART, Behringer, or similar. They start under $50. Put one between mic and pedal, and it ought to raise signal level to something more useful to the pedal. of course the signal leaving the pedal might be hotter now, so be ready to deal with that.
I just looked at selection at Sweetwater. Search mic preamp, single channel, sort by price. I am sure Musicians Friend has similar selection.
this is an alarming new trend i've ran into. the worse is when the artist insists on a setup where his main vocal is indeed routed through this device (distortion pedal) through all manner of adapter and/or radio shack matching transformer and then starts complaining that his "straight vocal sound should be better and that his distorted sound needs to be louder"
i insist on a "y" split so that at all times i have the original vocal at the main mix desk i take the output of the effect and return it to another channel and duck the dry vocal level during the segments (not the best solution in terms total control of dry vs effect) but in most cases is a better compromise.
p.s. with the right adaptors you can convert a snake channel into an insert extension to the stage!
i insist on a "y" split so that at all times i have the original vocal at the main mix desk i take the output of the effect and return it to another channel and duck the dry vocal level during the segments (not the best solution in terms total control of dry vs effect) but in most cases is a better compromise.
p.s. with the right adaptors you can convert a snake channel into an insert extension to the stage!
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When I was still doing live sound I would sometimes suggest that the miscreant buy a small format mixer and send me both clean and effected signals. I also saw guys use a separate mic for effected vocals, so a wet one and a dry one next to each other, and some exercising of the mute buttons for me.
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Hi,
You need a standard microphone transformer to drive the pedal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-MIT-17...-XLR3F-to-1-4-in-TS-Transformer-/360778374981
Usually 500 ohm to 50K ohm, i.e. x10 voltage step up ratio.
rgds, sreten.
You need a standard microphone transformer to drive the pedal.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-MIT-17...-XLR3F-to-1-4-in-TS-Transformer-/360778374981
Usually 500 ohm to 50K ohm, i.e. x10 voltage step up ratio.
rgds, sreten.
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Hi, here's a nice solution : D&D Modules
Wiring info : http://sub-continental.com/dd/modules/bodyplug/bodyplug.pdf
Wiring info : http://sub-continental.com/dd/modules/bodyplug/bodyplug.pdf
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