The "Elsinore Project" Thread

I think I've held out on the Elsinores long enough. Let me know when the crossover PCB and waveguides are ready and I'll take the plunge =)

Almost there, it has been quite a week here, we now have a 5Km lockdown here, which means we are only supposed to go buy essentials at the local shops or nearest shopping centre. Looks like the next four weeks.

The PCB will be supplied with the 18mH inductor and also the list of components that were used in the photo, Jantzen part numbers etc. This way you will make it compact enough to get through the 146mm 'aperture of the bottom driver, so that it can fit the Crossover at the bottom of the box.

970134d1627365830-elsinore-project-thread-el-6-mfc-pop_pcb-jpg


The above components will be on the List.

There will be two Lists, one for above Elsinore and the earlier posted Hamlet List.

I want to do this with my own Elsinores so that I can sign off on that. If of course, you want the Crossover somewhere else or externally, then that is up to you and what components you fit, but at least you will have a starting list as a suggestion and know there is adequate space on the PCB.

So we are talking a matter of days and under a week.

I can then relax, Elsinores and Hamlet then fully updated... :)
 
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Hamlet and Elsinore Update (both MFC versions):

Please note that some final tweaking of both Crossovers is taking place now and that ordering component values yet is a bit premature. This does not mean that any already built speakers are obsolete in any way, but as we are now basically going over to the MFC version only, as that is the driver now available, this is basically the fine tuning aspect. I hate the word 'voicing' and yet I understand why other designers use the phrase, in my case this is also about getting the toe in about right. The Hamlet, for example, had an increase in C1 value in comparison with the Elsinores, but this also requires them to be toed out much more, almost down the line. That is also being adjusted and the Components List will be updated accordingly. Similarly with the MFC Elsinore, there is also something similar going on there, but here the toe in and lower presence area is being looked at.

Updated Components List will come out for both MFC models, but if you have built the NRXC version already, this does not apply to you.

Appreciate your patience, as you may imagine, busy getting things right behind the scenes.

Cheers, Joe

PS: PCB & 18mH Inductors Price List has been done and will come out at the same as above - at least that is the plan.
 
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Hello Joe, in Italy I can still buy nrxc35-8, honestly, if you were in my shoes, would you build the original version or the new one?
Can you tell us what did not satisfy you with the first Mfc crossover? What got you to seek this refinement?
Thank's for your time,
Luca
 
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Hello Joe, in Italy I can still buy nrxc35-8, honestly, if you were in my shoes, would you build the original version or the new one?
Can you tell us what did not satisfy you with the first Mfc crossover? What got you to seek this refinement?
Thank's for your time,
Luca

I think that MFC was chosen due NRX was discontinued and replaced by NRX2 which has different character than NRX. while MFC has closer to NRX replacement. so it's not about refinement but availability issue
 
If the NRXC original version is available, I would use it, but I don't really have a preference for it or the MFC. I consider them both equally good and the character difference is very small.

Just be sure to NOT use the NRXC2 version.

At this stage, the Hamlet Mk6 will only be available as the MFC version. I am comparing some aspects of the performance of the MFC Hamlet versus MFC Elsinore because I have both here and I am comparing them. At this stage, it is more likely to be the MFC Hamlet that will change and the current MFC Elsinore will not change. We shall see. But if the NRXC original is available, then use the Crossover that has been available - that will not be changed to any serious degree.
 
Ok Joe, since you have no preferences for the nxrc and the mfc would cost me less , I think I will wait for any changes in the Elsinore crossover before proceeding with the purchase

Hi Luca, under those circumstances, if the MFC is less expensive, then that sounds like the way to go. Wait to buy the Crossover components until I have made the confirmed List (values) available and it will appear here first. Give me a couple of days.

Sorry guys, if I am causing a little confusion, but this is simply about locking in the designs, particularly the permanent Crossover values for MFC versions of Hamlet and Elsinore.

Almost there...

Whichever version you end up doing, and for different reasons I have a preference for the NRXC because its response has a single peak in the 5-10KHz range and the NRXC has a single peak (both ameliorates off-axis), so this looks like a plus for the NRXC, but it is not that simple. It means I can use a larger (double) value of inductor on the two upper (midrange) drivers and that is a definite plus for the MFC. Either way, both works but one has a disadvantage and an advantage at the same time. The end result sound-wise of both is getting the all-important balance is right - and this is what the Elsinores were always about, getting the mix right.

What has complicated things is that I need to get the Hamlet design right too, but it will have a slightly different balance, that cannot be helped for a number of reasons, but I want to get it as close as possible. The good news is that I have succeeded there beyond my own expectations, and I am very happy here.

It is clear that the Hamlet speaker has to sound like one of a family of speakers. That's been the bottom line here!

So when the process is nearly over, I can relax, sit back, and just let you guys get on with building, knowing I have done my bit.

Cheers, Joe
 
General Update:

I have amended the Hamlet "MFC" Crossover List in Post #3971 and it is now final.

There is also the very latest update of the "MFC" Elsinore Crossover List coming. There are a few minor variations, so earlier designs don't need any change.

The "NRXC" Elsinore Components List is not likely to change, but if there is, again it does not mean that anything made earlier needs changing.

Very close to finalising.
 
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Hi Joe, I was wondering whether the Elsinores would benefit significantly if the bass and midrange drivers had separate chambers? Thanks.

The answer is basically no, for a number of reasons. They are not 3-Ways but 2.5-Ways. I lose several advantages and also have the problem of making both volumes equal and so on. But the biggest thing of all is that 2.5-Ways means that the two top drivers see essentially near 100L damped volume looking back. That almost puts them in open baffle territory. There is always some delayed sound bleeding back through the cone(s) in the midrange. At the very beginning, Elsinores were influenced by my earlier work on midrange open baffle and I didn't want to lose that.
 
I have completed the Parts List for all three Elsinores (2) and Hamlet (1).

I am now working on the Price List for the PCB.

What I have in mind is that the PCB will come with the following:

1 x PCB Black (185mm x 140mm) OR PCB Green (185mm x 160mm)

1 x 18mH Inductors

4 x Cable Ties to mount 18mH Inductor

1 x 3R9 10W and 1 x 1R8 10W Resistors (*)

1 x 300uF/100V NP M.D.L. Capacitor


(*) Use whichever you need, I will supply both in case you don't inform me which one you need. The 3R9 is for Elsinore and 1R8 for Hamlet.

This means that you won't have to source two difficult components and also since I have secured already and they are a ready fit for the PCB.

The Black PCB will fit through the Front Panel through the driver hole. The Green PCB will not, but it has a larger area and using larger components and/or external Crossovers, may be more suitable for your purposes. Please specify Black (normal) or green.

Please note that I have invested the best part of ten thousand dollars to make all this possible and I have no idea how long it will take for me even to break even. So when you see the Price List, please bear in mind that you are paying for keeping the Elsinore Project (and Hamlet) going for others who will be building in the future. Also, any payment, no matter how small, as an additional contribution would be very appreciated. The PayPal address is joeras@customanalogue.com

Cheers, Joe
 
"please bear in mind that you are paying for keeping the Elsinore Project (and Hamlet) going for others who will be building in the future."


I'd rather spend my money with you than someone else. What you have done and others in the DIY community, is truly remarkable. I wish I was wealthy. I'd still be doing this, it's just in my personality, I'd rather build something because I have more control over the end result, and so, if I was rich, I'd make a very large donation for what you do. I'm still working on it, so who knows. :)

In any case thanks again for what you do.



 
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I am quite curious about possible changes in the Elsionore crossover.
I just finished my build, took me 6 weekends. I used a lot of beech multiplex combined with some MDF. I like the result. Olive veneer for the front and back, silver grey to please my girl friend.
The sound is, well shlightly unespected, good. Lifting for 10 cm brings it to out of ordinary. I am a speaker builder for nearly 50 years, so it's difficult to suprise me.
The only disantvantige, the efficiency is lower than my previous speakers (94 dB/Wm). So I need a more powerfull amplifier, or just a pre to give more than 2 V to the power amplifier. My actual set up is rather spartan, passive Pre Stevens & Billington TX102 silver, Yamaha 2SK76 with CCS, thats it. Possible not more than 2 or 3 watts. Now I am currious what will happen when the seakers are fully burnt in. May be they will lose a little bit of the remainig sharp sibbilants.
But, congratulation, an extremly well considered speaker. Up to now the costs are around 1400 Euro, not that much looking at the result.

br

Helmut