Joe, I emailed a question before I discovered your last post.
Maybe better posted here.
Joe, no problem for the delay and Thanks for upgrading an already very musical speaker that I sat in front of from 11am until 7pm yesterday.
My Question:
"I will also assume that the radius(r16) at the exit just needs to be smooth?
Sorry, but can't understand if R16 is specifically telling me what to do and dont know how important it might be? If smooth is key then I can come up with something."
If Steve can help with my question it will be well appreciated
If I can get someone to make these I would not add any fee to the price I'm getting, just shipping charge
The only thing is I'm looking to make the outer perimeter round as My front panels can be adjusted before veneering. I'll still see about the original shape as well.. I'll post when it happens or not.
Joel
Maybe better posted here.
Joe, no problem for the delay and Thanks for upgrading an already very musical speaker that I sat in front of from 11am until 7pm yesterday.
My Question:
"I will also assume that the radius(r16) at the exit just needs to be smooth?
Sorry, but can't understand if R16 is specifically telling me what to do and dont know how important it might be? If smooth is key then I can come up with something."
If Steve can help with my question it will be well appreciated
If I can get someone to make these I would not add any fee to the price I'm getting, just shipping charge
The only thing is I'm looking to make the outer perimeter round as My front panels can be adjusted before veneering. I'll still see about the original shape as well.. I'll post when it happens or not.
Joel
Joel and Joe, I would hate to take such a beautifully designed speaker and put a sub-standard waveguide in it just because I have a guy that says he can make them. I guess I'll pass and leave it up to you guy's that know what your doing. Can't wait to build my MK V's.
Tom
G’day All
BIG TIP#1-The biggest trick is to get the transition between the 16mm radius at the front face interface, and the junction at the conical (90degree included angle) inside face interface- just right. As you can see from the drawing, the centre of the radius is not the easy to locate. Both interfaces are tangents.
BIG TIP#2- If you going down the cnc path consider the overall thickness of the panel- 18mm is not enough. You will need to use 21mm (which doesn’t exist) if you plan to machine from a single slab- or need to machine down from 25mm thick, which would equal allot of machine time. Check the drawing.
BIG TIP#3- If an overhead router cnc machine is used, you need to have the machinist run very fine passes, or you will end up with mini grooves which will require a lot of sanding. More passes equals more time equals more cost- it’s a trade off
BIG TIP#4- The throat edge of the WG is susceptible to damage when machining- it not that thick there, particularly if you plan to use MDF- steady as you go
BIG TIP#5- I think MDF is the quickest and easiest way to get a smooth an accurate "machined" finish. You will not get a smooth machined finished with plastics as you would with mdf- and mdf is easy to get super smooth.
BIG TIP#6- Using a timber product with grain will also be difficult as the grain will need to be "super tight", or else the areas where the grain changes direction will "fluff up" and become woolly and difficult to get smooth. Remember the surface needs to be as smooth as.
Good luck with the challenge. Its a good one!
Its a bit like solving a rubiks cube and only being able to use multigrip pliers
I've had the luxury of 25 years in both mechanical engineering and carpentry/cabinetry to understand the pros and cons
Joe
Sorry to hear the bad news.
BIG TIP#1-The biggest trick is to get the transition between the 16mm radius at the front face interface, and the junction at the conical (90degree included angle) inside face interface- just right. As you can see from the drawing, the centre of the radius is not the easy to locate. Both interfaces are tangents.
BIG TIP#2- If you going down the cnc path consider the overall thickness of the panel- 18mm is not enough. You will need to use 21mm (which doesn’t exist) if you plan to machine from a single slab- or need to machine down from 25mm thick, which would equal allot of machine time. Check the drawing.
BIG TIP#3- If an overhead router cnc machine is used, you need to have the machinist run very fine passes, or you will end up with mini grooves which will require a lot of sanding. More passes equals more time equals more cost- it’s a trade off
BIG TIP#4- The throat edge of the WG is susceptible to damage when machining- it not that thick there, particularly if you plan to use MDF- steady as you go
BIG TIP#5- I think MDF is the quickest and easiest way to get a smooth an accurate "machined" finish. You will not get a smooth machined finished with plastics as you would with mdf- and mdf is easy to get super smooth.
BIG TIP#6- Using a timber product with grain will also be difficult as the grain will need to be "super tight", or else the areas where the grain changes direction will "fluff up" and become woolly and difficult to get smooth. Remember the surface needs to be as smooth as.
Good luck with the challenge. Its a good one!
Its a bit like solving a rubiks cube and only being able to use multigrip pliers
I've had the luxury of 25 years in both mechanical engineering and carpentry/cabinetry to understand the pros and cons
Joe
Sorry to hear the bad news.
Today, I was At Creative CNC and and after a long discussion on different ways to make the Wave Guide, the best method we came up with was with Alluminum round stock turned in his CNC Lathe. I paid $200 to get first pair made and additional pairs will be about $100. The outside diameter is 150mm
The pieces should be anodized or clear coated.
When I get the units I will post pictures with more details.
The cavity would have to be filled in beyond the Waveguide. Sorry this was the best I could come up with but willing to make MDF filler boards for anyone..
Is there anyone that might be interested in a pair
Joel
The pieces should be anodized or clear coated.
When I get the units I will post pictures with more details.
The cavity would have to be filled in beyond the Waveguide. Sorry this was the best I could come up with but willing to make MDF filler boards for anyone..
Is there anyone that might be interested in a pair
Joel
That's not a bad price for aluminum. Being round stock would keep the price down. But how easy will the fill-in be? A piece of MDF 18mm (or 3/4" I suppose) thick, get a tool that can cuts it out.
Something like this tool: Jasper Circle Jigs - Soundlabs Group
I would anodise the aluminium black - otherwise it might look a bit funny on the eye. Black will hide any imperfections better. How about satin black powder coat? That might work, right?
Steve should have his Mk5 running tomorrow, the upgraded crossovers will be delivered overnight. Spoonted should have his going soon too. But Steve (greenpea) has promised feedback before the weekend.
Cheers, Joe R.
"But how easy will the fill-in be? A piece of MDF 18mm (or 3/4" I suppose) thick"
I Have a sheet of 18mm MDF not destined for any other use right now.
I think I would make a simple circle template that lays over a 156mm by 226mm MDF board. The hole in template is calculated to accomadate the Router Guide Bushing offset and give the desired diameter.
I'm finding its best to make a template even for a few parts..
Joel
I Have a sheet of 18mm MDF not destined for any other use right now.
I think I would make a simple circle template that lays over a 156mm by 226mm MDF board. The hole in template is calculated to accomadate the Router Guide Bushing offset and give the desired diameter.
I'm finding its best to make a template even for a few parts..
Joel
Hi Joel, I may be interested, any idea what shipping to NZ may be?
Joe I built your tbigc with ccs, it was the best of my gainclones so I have alot of confidence in your designs and also your ear. Thing is I expect the sort of money I will spend on this could be spent on a quality pair of used speakers that can be auditioned so its a difficult decision to through with it, I also question my woodworking skills.
So my point is, what in this part of the world can I listen to that sounds close to these? I'm obviously in NZ and will be in Sydney in July so can either listen to the real thing or something you may think is close to them. I want full range, ie good bass, but that's not a show stopper, I value dynamics most I think, imaging and last would be sound stage. Thanks.
Joe I built your tbigc with ccs, it was the best of my gainclones so I have alot of confidence in your designs and also your ear. Thing is I expect the sort of money I will spend on this could be spent on a quality pair of used speakers that can be auditioned so its a difficult decision to through with it, I also question my woodworking skills.
So my point is, what in this part of the world can I listen to that sounds close to these? I'm obviously in NZ and will be in Sydney in July so can either listen to the real thing or something you may think is close to them. I want full range, ie good bass, but that's not a show stopper, I value dynamics most I think, imaging and last would be sound stage. Thanks.
Can you hear them............
Joe you are a legend,money well spent everything expected and more.
Got to go dance...............
Thanks Joe appreciated more than you know.
Well, tell us some more...
Steve (greenpea) should be listening to his tomorrow.
Cheers, Joe
Last edited:
ALUMINUM WAVEGUIDE
You can check shipping costs below MY PC L1E 3B2
I used Small Packet International Air NZ $36.07 GB $33.45
Final Cost is Subject to taking them to Post Office and getting printed quote
http://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/personal/farInt?execution=e2s1
The more people that want these price will lower
(200 + cost for each additional pair divided by the number of people) + filler board + shipping.
I could make the filler board slightly oversized and can be easily sanded to fit snuggly in the opening and so Waveguide ends up in the right place. I can also veneer the board and have a wide selection of veneers on hand. Cost wont be much.
I'll get pictures when I pick them up. I'm trusting these will be good. The guy has done some amazing things with AL. When I arrived he already put Waveguide in CAD and I viewed it in 3D. He made the front of one in lathe with MDF and looked good..
There is guy in my area that powder coats car parts. I might look him up
but dont know if this is best for Aluminum.
Spoonted, I like what your saying. Would love to hear more.
Joel
You can check shipping costs below MY PC L1E 3B2
I used Small Packet International Air NZ $36.07 GB $33.45
Final Cost is Subject to taking them to Post Office and getting printed quote
http://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/personal/farInt?execution=e2s1
The more people that want these price will lower
(200 + cost for each additional pair divided by the number of people) + filler board + shipping.
I could make the filler board slightly oversized and can be easily sanded to fit snuggly in the opening and so Waveguide ends up in the right place. I can also veneer the board and have a wide selection of veneers on hand. Cost wont be much.
I'll get pictures when I pick them up. I'm trusting these will be good. The guy has done some amazing things with AL. When I arrived he already put Waveguide in CAD and I viewed it in 3D. He made the front of one in lathe with MDF and looked good..
There is guy in my area that powder coats car parts. I might look him up
but dont know if this is best for Aluminum.
Spoonted, I like what your saying. Would love to hear more.
Joel
Waveguide pictures from Steve at Creative CNC
He decided on his own to put a 45 on the outside and I'm a bit pissed.
I know his heart is into it but not sure if its going to work for the way I'm putting these in. Might have to ask for another pair. The 45 could look good along with a 45 on the filler board but I'm also adding thin wood to flush fit the drivers..
Dont know how the pictures will look but when I pick them up will have friend do better pics..
Joel
He decided on his own to put a 45 on the outside and I'm a bit pissed.
I know his heart is into it but not sure if its going to work for the way I'm putting these in. Might have to ask for another pair. The 45 could look good along with a 45 on the filler board but I'm also adding thin wood to flush fit the drivers..
Dont know how the pictures will look but when I pick them up will have friend do better pics..
Joel
Attachments
that 45 degr edge is easy to remove by hand
but a bit small to support the tweeter around its xo point
looks more like a super tweeter thing
or maybe there's more to be added, and I missed that part
well, mine aint too big either
shown for inspiration only, and interest
Attachments
Hi all,
After a few hours of listening last night i have noticed the following,
Please take into consideration half the time i,m not sure what you guys mean when describing different aspects of a speaker so feel free to educate me with my laymans description.
Straight away i noticed a sense of 3d depth to the music like there were layers,i have never heard this before compared to prev owned speakers that include Krix lyrix,vaf dcx and some older B&W 202s.
Usally you can listen to a speaker and say the music coming from left or right speaker, thats the tweeter thats the mids and always seemed mechanical to me not a live performance but the elsinores seem to come from (Trying to think of word) a sound stage or the music comes from the wall not the spekers at all (incredible).
If i concertrate on one speaker you can not differnciate between the tweeter /mids and lows they blend together not isolted probably say silky sort of sound.
Bass is effortless in tight controlled high quality fashion,the drivers hardly move to produce high sound levels.
Now i know people are not full of it when they say the have to listen to there music collection again and all this from a sony plastation 3 as the cd source (OPPO power board died) and a Pioneer SCLX73.
Jeez Joe now youv'e done it.
What next center speaker,new oppo or unity coupling amp.
Must get back to work.
Cheers spoonted.
After a few hours of listening last night i have noticed the following,
Please take into consideration half the time i,m not sure what you guys mean when describing different aspects of a speaker so feel free to educate me with my laymans description.
Straight away i noticed a sense of 3d depth to the music like there were layers,i have never heard this before compared to prev owned speakers that include Krix lyrix,vaf dcx and some older B&W 202s.
Usally you can listen to a speaker and say the music coming from left or right speaker, thats the tweeter thats the mids and always seemed mechanical to me not a live performance but the elsinores seem to come from (Trying to think of word) a sound stage or the music comes from the wall not the spekers at all (incredible).
If i concertrate on one speaker you can not differnciate between the tweeter /mids and lows they blend together not isolted probably say silky sort of sound.
Bass is effortless in tight controlled high quality fashion,the drivers hardly move to produce high sound levels.
Now i know people are not full of it when they say the have to listen to there music collection again and all this from a sony plastation 3 as the cd source (OPPO power board died) and a Pioneer SCLX73.
Jeez Joe now youv'e done it.
What next center speaker,new oppo or unity coupling amp.
Must get back to work.
Cheers spoonted.