The "Elsinore Project" Thread

Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
Hmm, because of acoustic phase issues and coherense

In a surround setup you are often more than one person (?), and not positioned in the sweet spot

Imagine a standard center speaker with a tweeter and two 6", one on each side - listening off axis means different distance to each 6", not the very best situation

I admit I havent tried it, but generally there are many things in favour of coaxials and with low xo point it ought to work very well as a center - but I havent yet seen any detailed construction

Maybe a good fullrange would work too, but it dont stand severe abuse
 
PoorSound said:
but i need it to be timbre matched with the elsinores. i think my only option is the 6.5" Peerless HDS PPB and the Peerless HDS tweeter...

The problem is that either you do the hard yards yourself or find a suitable design. Being a middle channel you'd probably look for a 5" based design. Either a single driver with tweeter in vertical alignment or two drivers laterally with tweeter in the centre. Either way in order to get the symmetry right.

Question - did you use PPB cones or the Nomex, 830874 or 830875?

Material related to Elsinore Mk2 is now posted.

The main page is www.customanalogue.com/e lsinore/elsinore_index.htm and this has a nice picture of a veneered pair in my sound room.

The more technical details/updates are found here: www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_mk2.htm


Joe R.
 
Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
Wonder how it would work with a redesigned "Elsinore" as a power center - same drivers and same crossover
 

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I used the PPB cone.

i already have a complete system, but nothing matches and it bugs me!

i've got a JBL EC35 center, paradigm mini monitor rears, and Angstrom subwoofer.

i would like everything to be timbre matched, but aren't i obligated to use the PPB cone (whether 5" or 6.5") and the HDS tweeter?
 
PoorSound said:
I used the PPB cone.

i already have a complete system, but nothing matches and it bugs me!

i've got a JBL EC35 center, paradigm mini monitor rears, and Angstrom subwoofer.

i would like everything to be timbre matched, but aren't i obligated to use the PPB cone (whether 5" or 6.5") and the HDS tweeter?

I may be able to help, but we are talking about a single 5" HDS PPB with XT25 tweeter. If used above listening height, the tweeter must be above the 5" and if below, then the tweeter must be below 5". It's a small 7 Litre approx box tuned just under 50Hz with a rear port. The overall voicing is compatible with Elsinores. The crossover techniques are similar etc. Interested?

Joe R.
 
PoorSound said:
yeah im interested! we can't use the peerless tweeter instead?

The problem is that I have a 'design' - and it hasn't been modeled/developed with the HDS tweeter. All this was done before HDS tweeter came along. Sorry, but it's a case of what we've got versus speculation adding a totally different tweeter. BTW, the XT25 tweeter may have an advantage here, being a centre channel, with its more limited dispersion? As far as timbre goes, this will match what you have nicely. Trust me on that.

Joe R.
 
PoorSound said:
i've always thought u needed the exact same drivers to timbre match! that's news to me.

What mid/woofers are you using in the design?

It's the smaller 5 1/4" brother of the 6 1/2" drivers you are already using. That will certainly match timbre. I did this design with XT25 tweeter. I could have done it with the new HDS tweeter but it was not available to me then. If I was to change the tweeter I would have to redesign from almost scratch. You could try the crossover you have used for the HDS in the Elsinores, but the series R would need to be increased and the series C would need to be reduced. Using the existing Lo-Pass filter on the 5 1/4" as is (I would send you that), then tune C & R to HDS tweeter by ear. Are you keen on doing that?

I prefer to use our modeling techniques and not publish speculation. When changing a driver in a design, I never start in the middle, I always go back to the beginning from scratch. All raw measurements pre-modeling needs to be done at the same time or inconsistencies (and nagging doubt) can affect the result. We have developed a very specific form of modeling that takes out a huge number of variables and with discipline you CAN reliably get predictable results - compliance between real world and what you see on the computer screen.

Up to you. Try HDS and tune series C (needs to be lower than 4uF) & and series R (needs to be higher than 4R) - keep the 0.82mH choke and 68uF notch filter. I will supply box info etc.

Joe R.
 
unfortunately, i know NOTHING about designing crossovers! i guess what your saying, is if we substitute the vifa for the peerless tweeter, you will have to completely redesign the crossover?

next, is it a MT, or MTM design?

thanks alot for your help joe, its very appreciated.
 
Joe Rasmussen said:


OK, give me a little time to put things together.

Joe R.

The "JR Minis" - also useful as centre channel - in which case build three and (hint to anybody interested) and use Elsinore as main Left & Right. In that case no real need for a sub. Anyway, that's the idea presented here.

Also quite nice as a small stereo pair.

First the box:

Minis_Box_Front_View.gif


Minis_Box_Rear_View.gif


How you make the box is up to you. Please note the tweeter is below the 5 1/4" driver. They are designed for stands 600mm high. If used as a centre speaker and mounted above ear height, then use the tweeter on top. The basic thing to remember is the tweeter needs to be as far away from the listener and the 5 1/4" PPB HDS driver closer.

The rear cut-out - needs to match the dimensions of whatever terminals you use.

The Tweeter must be flush mounted and 5 1/4" PPB driver not.

Stuffing: I used wool/dacron (polyester) bats. Cut a piece that covers half of the volume behind main driver towards the rear only - keep some space behind the driver itself. Lower half of volume, line only with 20mm thick - keep space as much as possible near the internal port exit - breathing space.

Next installment will be the crossover.

Joe R.