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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

The "Elsinore Project" Thread
The "Elsinore Project" Thread
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Old 15th October 2019, 12:54 AM   #2571
dmcgown is offline dmcgown  United States
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Default They are singing!

I finished up the Elsinores this evening, and are cut into my system. They are very coherent and have no strain. They completely disappear. Much, much better than I was expecting.
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Old 15th October 2019, 01:29 AM   #2572
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
dmcgown,

Congratulations on your successful build!

That looks like a Class A amplifier on the floor?
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Old 15th October 2019, 01:46 AM   #2573
dmcgown is offline dmcgown  United States
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Zman,

Yes. It is my version of the Moskido, using First Watt BA Complementary Output boards with an Aikido tube front end. 6N1P gain stage and 6N6P White cathode follower. 25w class A power. My favorite amp, after 25 years of building tube amps.

David
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Old 16th October 2019, 05:57 AM   #2574
irext is offline irext  Australia
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They do like a class A medium power amp as they are quite efficient. I'm running my MK V's on two Monarchy SM70 Pros in class A. I would have to spend many times the total outlay to improve on the sound. I go to HIFI shows now and come home with a smile on my face.
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Old 16th October 2019, 12:34 PM   #2575
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
What is the efficiency / sensitivity of the Elsinore (into full 4pi space)?
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Old 21st October 2019, 12:01 AM   #2576
dmcgown is offline dmcgown  United States
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Default Thrilled!

I have been a bit quiet since completing my build. After playing around with position in my room, I have just been sitting back listening. I have never heard a speaker disappear like these, and have such solid, even response from top to bottom. I had a few non-audiophile friends (fellow musicians) who were absolutely amazed that it was possible for speakers to sound like these do, creating a solid 3 dimension sonic image from the plane of the speaker extending side to side and to the back of the room behind the speakers, like being in a concert hall. But today I had a fellow audiophile and DIY'er over (who was picking up some horn speakers that I experimented with several years ago and not longer need or want), and he thought these were the best speakers and system he had ever heard, including at our local audio show (Capital AudioFest). In fact, he would love to participate in a group build of these, and felt that if more heard these, there could be several wanting to do so.

This is an incredible project, and I am absolutely happy beyond belief on how these turned out. They work perfectly with my Class A tube/MOSFET hybrid amp, and I have a pair of 20W+ GM70 SET monoblocks waiting in the wings to try out (as well as a pair of PP 300B amps that need little more work before I will try them).

David
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:04 AM   #2577
Joe Rasmussen is offline Joe Rasmussen  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcgown View Post
I have been a bit quiet since completing my build...

David
Hi David, that sounds like a great little mini-review. May I quote you? It is fresh and concise, nice.

The aspect of the "disappearing speaker" is a recurring reported theme. I believe that this is due to keeping suppressing current-induced distortions being fed back into the voice coil of the drivers - and this seems to get the sounds out of the box. It may be traced to actual audible distortion that then gives away to the box location because it does not sound natural. Suppress those and we become less aware of the box (but the box itself also needs to be quiet).

I know somebody who has already done some partial measurements that are telling, but a more serious attempt is being planned meticulously to see if acoustic measurements can be made to tally with current distortions - and these current type distortions are very real even if they are not well known.

This DIY forum is mainly to help guys to build and help each other. But every now and then I will point to some of the technical aspects of the design, but not necessarily turn this into a technical forum.

Just keep building them.

Cheers, Joe
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:35 PM   #2578
dmcgown is offline dmcgown  United States
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Joe,

No problem use of my review.

If I might add, one of the interesting things about these speakers "disappearing" is as you walk about the room, and even within a couple of feet of one of the speakers, there is still no sense of the sound coming from the speaker itself but instead it is coming from the space or soundfield that they present. Mind you, it did take a little setup to determine the best location to get that, and I do use some diffuser room treatment on the side walls close to the speakers to scatter first reflection. The dimensions of my room 8.25m long by 4m wide, by 2.44m high. The speakers are arranged firing lengthwise into the room, about 1/3 of the room length from the front wall (and my listening position is similarly 1/3 of the room length from the rear wall). I have found this to work best in my room (basically the same location as I had my open baffle speakers). I experimented with speaker separation and clearance to the side walls until the image opened up. I was concerned about the recommendation by others that these needed to be in a room about 5 meters wide, but they seem to work fine in a narrower room given care in setup. A small change in position can make a big difference.

David
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Old 24th October 2019, 05:47 AM   #2579
Joe Rasmussen is offline Joe Rasmussen  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcgown View Post
Joe,

No problem use of my review.

If I might add, one of the interesting things about these speakers "disappearing" is as you walk about the room, and even within a couple of feet of one of the speakers, there is still no sense of the sound coming from the speaker itself but instead it is coming from the space or soundfield that they present. Mind you, it did take a little setup to determine the best location...
Yes absolutely, it can pay huge dividends find the best location of the speakers in the room. I always tell people that if they read a review and the reviewer ends up spending a lot of boring words on finding that best position, then the reviewer is only doing his job. But in some cases, I have found that a room can have a sweet spot and that is the case with mine. But even then, it may only suit speakers of similar size etc.

In my room, people often comment that my Elsinores are spread wider than most and turned in about 15 degrees. That toe-in is also important, but bottom line, it's worth just keep playing around with it and sometimes something almost magical can happen.

Also raising then 3 or maybe 4" off the floor works too.

Happy listening.

-Joe
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Old 24th October 2019, 08:33 AM   #2580
Joe Rasmussen is offline Joe Rasmussen  Australia
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David, forgot to ask and I didn't see it mentioned earlier, which driver did you end up using, the NRX or MFC version?
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