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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
The "Elsinore Project" Thread
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Old 9th April 2019, 05:07 PM   #2441
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
Quote:
...if has a 'filled' part that slows down the internal sound propagation...
Joe,

Please do not propogate that myth. Bradbury has been shown wrong, the damping does not slow the speed of sound down.

It is true that the damping does increase the apparent volume of the box.Maximum amount is usually considered to be 20-30%.

Quote:
somewhat more like a transmission line
A 1/2 wavelength transmission line since the box is sealed. This is the case with alll tall-skinny boxws.

dave
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Old 9th April 2019, 11:11 PM   #2442
Joe Rasmussen is offline Joe Rasmussen  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Joe,

Please do not propogate that myth. Bradbury...
I could have worded things a lot better. But I wasn't really talking about damping, I was talking about the tuning of a vented box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
It is true that the damping does increase the apparent volume of the box.Maximum amount is usually considered to be 20-30%.
This is exactly what I meant, but again I was talking about the tuning and not about the damping. For example, I recall a test I did many years ago with a 10 Litre box that was tuned to 55Hz when lined and it dropped by quite a few Hertz (think it was more that 5 Hertz) when filled. That tells me that the apparent volume had increased because the same dimensions of the port has not changed, so an increase in apparent volume explains the lower tuning.

So there is a reduction in velocity (I should not have used propagation, but I just couldn't remember the word velocity at that moment) inside the box, this explains the apparent increase in volume because the volume will look larger to the driver. The fill has a resistive or lossy quality, this is also what a good TL will take advantage of.

That reminds me, and I don't miss taking an opportunity to point this out to even serious speaker designers, but the box tuning frequency of a vented box is independent of the driver, but in a sealed box the driver influences the sealed box frequency. So with a vented box, change the driver and the saddle frequency will not change, but of course the damping will.

Back to the choices made in the Elsinores, the idea is that this is a more resistive vented box than what you get in a conventional lined box. When you do this, you get that apparent increase in volume, makes the port dimensions less problematic (the port can become larger in diameter for the same length - a good thing) and more. But the bass also sounds better, each note better defined and delineated, the kind of sound that I like from a TL, except it is not a TL.

So I was not into any myth, just my own experiences.

Cheers, Joe
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Old 9th April 2019, 11:18 PM   #2443
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
Thanx for the clarification.

I just don’t want people to twist your words.

dave
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Old 9th April 2019, 11:23 PM   #2444
phivates is offline phivates  United States
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Those old beliefs die hard. Thanks for your vigilance Dave.
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Old 9th April 2019, 11:29 PM   #2445
Joe Rasmussen is offline Joe Rasmussen  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I just donít want people to twist your words.
On my bad days I am quite able to twist my own words!
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Old 3rd May 2019, 10:08 AM   #2446
gadut is offline gadut  Indonesia
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
SB17NRX clearance stock on Indonesia distributor with 20% discount, too bad I have moved to OB

SB Acoustics sB17NRX8 with Grill. old stock sale!
https://tokopedia.link/VXedxjNZnW
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Old 4th May 2019, 10:15 PM   #2447
Ranchu32 is offline Ranchu32  Australia
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Iím thinking about building the Elsinoreís and already have the Peerless tweeters and 4x SB17NRX35-8 from another build.

The woofers are now EOL and no longer available from any of the local distributors, but the recommended replacement, the SB17MFC35-8, are.

My question: is it advisable to mix Ďn match the NRX and MFC drivers, and if so, whatís the best way to go about it.

I can go out and buy 8x new woofers but I thought Iíd ask first since the MFCís Iíve got will be surplus to my needs if I go ahead with this build and canít use them.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:10 AM   #2448
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
Ranchu32, please refer to following post by Joe:

The "Elsinore Project" Thread
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:14 AM   #2449
Ranchu32 is offline Ranchu32  Australia
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Thanks zman, I missed that post from Joe, which confirms what I already suspected.

A friend and speaker builder has suggested I use the 2x Peerless and 4x SB17NRX to build a pair of MTM Elsinore's in smaller cabinets. They would sit on top of a pair of 12" woofers in separate (probably sealed enclosures) which would provide the bass reinforcement. Bass drivers would be powered from separate amps.

I don't want to take this thread OT but if anyone has tried something similar please send me a PM.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:18 AM   #2450
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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The "Elsinore Project" Thread
Ranchu32,

Since you are considering separate woofer support, you can check out Joe's bookshelf design called the Hamlet:

The "Elsinore Project" Thread

Maybe Joe can chime in.
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