Corner Horn

[lndm]

To get a coherent speaker, great care must be taken in the crossover - but damm, I am tired of crossovers

A good point. Now, I believe GeoffH when he says the midrange is sensitive, but avoiding it can also be a compromise IMO.

Designing crossovers is a harsh, long and frustrating job. Every time I embark I say, this will be the crossover to end all crossovers...I know it never happens , but I have developed some very coherent crossovers in the past. Ones that seem to disappear from the system. It makes me think twice before making compromises on driver choice based on avoiding crossovers.

 

[lndm]

a forrest of ribbons

I've never thought of ribbons that way

No matter how well we think our systems are, they are not a patch on live music.

This is a quote from the Tubecad Journal, http://www.tubecad.com/2004/blog0004.htm , 2006.

Written by John Broskie
Fifteen years ago when an audiophile friend and I went to breakfast in Davenport , California, a small sleepy coastal town 5 miles north of Santa Cruz. We were eating our omelets when a young women sat 20 feet behind my friend and began to play a large harp. After a few minutes of live music passed, I asked my friend what he thought of the sound system. He became animated.

“So that’s it. That’s why you wanted to come to this restaurant: let me guess these new -age hippies are too cheap to buy a new PA system and they are running some old Dynaco gear. And they probably are running the original tubes,” he said triumphantly to me.

He then cocked his ear and said, “Yes, definitely tube gear, notice the flabby bottom end and the rolled off highs.”

“What about the mids,” I asked.

“Sure it sounds smooth, but too smooth, artificially smooth, no bite...just too romantic don’t you think? Real music has more of an edge to it,” he replied.

“You’re right, it sounds just like tube gear to me,” was my answer as we stood to leave and my friend was horrified to see real music being performed.

 

[Geoff H]

You know when you are getting close when listening to something like The Corrs singing live, the REM cover "everybody hurts sometimes" and Andrea appears to step forward in front of the rest, I can't wait for LCD or plasma technology to catch up. Her sister does a similar thing on the violin solo.

That bloke that thought the harp was amplified must have been deaf.

One of our neighbours has recently started playing a drum kit. My good landlady said one day "the kids must be home, they have had the stereo going all morning" I replied "ah no, that's live, or some serious power and gear, and I haven't seen the lights flickering, it's live"

That house is at least a kilometre away.

Geoff

 

[tinitus]

I begin to see hifi, and speakerbuilding as a kind of "thai thji" (probably spelled wrong), well I guess it goes for life in general

Every time you make a different move, the next step takes a different direction

lndm....I hear you, I am not at all convinced about high efficiency and the use of very broadbanded drivers either, although I do think that a minimum of simplicity could be the way, but it can also be the most difficult to realize

 

[Geoff H]

May be the main issue with crossovers, is setting them up for drivers which look good on paper, or we may have even heard them, yet they bear little resemblence to the musical scale, or harmonics.

The classic 500/5K is probably the worst configuration we could come up with. The 2 way at 2.5k is not much better.

Look at the number of instruments that cross 500Hz. A below middle C is 440Hz.


Geoff.

 

[Ian J]

440 Hz is A above middle C

Ian

 

[Geoff H]

Thanks Ian, your'e right. Perhaps thats why I prefer to hear others
playing, to my attempts.

Geoff.

 

[tinitus]

Absolutely right - from start my speakers were measured with the finest tools and software, and I was very disappointed to hear a saxophone or a violin fore that matter - it sounded like they vere playing in a concrete cellar, bloody awfull - after YEARS of adjustment by ear it now sounds almost right, almost - and I wouldnt dare measure them now

In my youth I only could afford cheap fullrange in horns, maybe it has been to some advantage, allthough if I return I might be disappointed

 

[Geoff H]

"In my youth I only could afford cheap fullrange in horns, maybe it has been to some advantage, allthough if I return I might be disappointed"

That's all part of learning. No such thing as a bad choice, as long as we learn from it.

Our ears are very forgiving in terms of frequency response, however if we miss an event (transient) there is nothing to forgive.

A lot of effort to get a ruler flat response curve degrades transient response. At times I wonder if some people listen to their speakers, rather than the music.


Enjoy the music,

Geoff.

 

[Pano]

It makes sense not to crossover right in the middle of the music, that's where you'll hear it most.

But some of the most amazing, detailed, musical, coherent systems I have ever heard crossed right at --- 700Hz.

All depends on the drivers and the crossover, and perhaps the skill of the designer.

 

[tinitus]

It dont matter much where you place your crossoverpoint, its there no matter what, what really matters is HOW you do it

To say that a certain frequency is better or worse, dont make any sense at all without knowing the whole system and excactly how its done