I bought the TPL minus the horn. But I do plan on getting the horn to copy the angles the best I can with wood. I thought about 3d printing the tweeter mid section but figured I might as well just try and build one out of ply for now.
I was going to attempt one from scratch based off of the TPL horn and just extending that horn then adding on the final expansion from there. My goal was to try and build a SH64 like design.
Thanks PB. I was hoping to get the mids as close as I can so that 2000hz might be possible. It doesnt really matter how high as I am just trying to have as much usable high extension as I can. That way when deciding on which I prefer I wont be stuck with perhaps a 1200hz only XO.
I was going to copy the angles of the TPL horn. So roughly an 80 x 30. Didnt know if I could make it more than that since thats what the AMT is anyways.
Was going to try and copy the ports as DSL did with my celestion mids but wanted to also try the idea of horizonatl slots also. I may have to wait on that last idea as I dont know if I can get a tool to use on wood that will be clean cutting and thin.
I think someone posted years ago the compound angle calculator. Not sure where it is but I never figured out how to use the calculator. But I really should look into it. I have my eight celestion mids and TPL already. Just a matter of building a horn to test.
Will just be working on the mids and highs to work together and then add the bass drivers down the road. Still not sure what I will use yet. Have a few ideas but probably going to build a SH with mids/high and single bass driver below. If my budget changes then I may go with a pair of 15's per horn. But thats way down the road. Four 10's for me cost about the same as a pair of 15's.
I liked the JTR Noesis 215RT. SO I would probably build something like that but SH for the mid/high section.
But first things first I have to build my prototype and hope for the best.
Will just be working on the mids and highs to work together and then add the bass drivers down the road. Still not sure what I will use yet. Have a few ideas but probably going to build a SH with mids/high and single bass driver below. If my budget changes then I may go with a pair of 15's per horn. But thats way down the road. Four 10's for me cost about the same as a pair of 15's.
I liked the JTR Noesis 215RT. SO I would probably build something like that but SH for the mid/high section.
But first things first I have to build my prototype and hope for the best.
This one looks really cool! YouTube
If nothing else the website may allow me/us with zip/zero AutoCad, Sketchup, etc., skills to quickly make basic cab, etc., drawings: https://app.sketchup.com/app
GM
Thanks
And thanks for this also.
Hopefully I can try and learn a bit from these two links and at least get some drawings made up. Then in a couple of weeks, if I have finally moved, I will try and get started on the build. I am looking for a rental house to move into and not having a lot of luck. Dont want to unpack everything right now either.
So, sorry in advance if I dont start my build right away. My builds tend to take forever to get started and finish. But I do hope to get this started and tested before I take a trip back home to the US in May. And thanks to anyone who can help me out in advance.
Hi Guys
Sorry I hijacking afcourse not mine attemption to do so
I think I did post earlier but have a question, because I want to use the synergy in a home size matters, I have sim with just one bass speaker and one mid, is this possible and where I have to place the port then? bassrereflex pipe can replace the other speaker?, normally there are two speakers and 4 mids, but maybe one bass and two mid is a better option for me.
I have seen unity's who has a wideband speaker of 3 inch in stead of the compression driver with only a bass, the wideband does all from 400 a 600 hz or so and higher, but I think it will fall off 6 dB octave I can correct that but loose a lot of efficienty.
The old phillips woofer of 42 years old do quite well here.
thanks.
Sorry I hijacking afcourse not mine attemption to do so
I think I did post earlier but have a question, because I want to use the synergy in a home size matters, I have sim with just one bass speaker and one mid, is this possible and where I have to place the port then? bassrereflex pipe can replace the other speaker?, normally there are two speakers and 4 mids, but maybe one bass and two mid is a better option for me.
I have seen unity's who has a wideband speaker of 3 inch in stead of the compression driver with only a bass, the wideband does all from 400 a 600 hz or so and higher, but I think it will fall off 6 dB octave I can correct that but loose a lot of efficienty.
The old phillips woofer of 42 years old do quite well here.
thanks.
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Modified ports with volume reducers
Sprayed the back side to protect from wet sanding. It was quite a bit of work to add the filler circles but hopefully results in smoother response with more extension.
Sprayed the back side to protect from wet sanding. It was quite a bit of work to add the filler circles but hopefully results in smoother response with more extension.
The attachment did not upload, trying again.
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BWaslo's small syns uses just one mid. He argues (convincingly) that provides enough SPL for home use. You can put the ports anywhere you want, so long as they are the correct distance from the throat, but I would still put each hole in or near a corner if its a rectangular horn.
I am looking to build a small unity/synergy horn with response from 300, 400 or 500 Hz up and a crossover of between 1500 and 2000 Hz. I went through part of this thread but my head is spinning from info overload right now.
Would 4x Peerless 2.5" TC7FD04 work as a mids?
I saw the formula 2xFs/Qes should be around 530 for suitable drivers. This 2.5" fullrange driver has Fs=202, Qes=0.88 so it is slightly lower at 469 but still in the ballpark..
What results could I expect from this driver? Where can I expect to high and low pass these drivers? Is its 1mm xmax sufficient?
I want to build a horn for hifi use so high Spl is not needed. I plan to not use a compression driver but a xt25 ring radiator tweeter and cross over to two Dayton 10" classic woofers, one above and one below the horn.
I have easy access to Peerless drivers. Most other things are hard to get in Thailand and local stuff always comes without T/S parameters.
Another thing that still confuses me after hours of reading.....what is the difference between a Unity and a Synergy horn? It seems many people use the terms interchangeably but I know they are not the same.
Would 4x Peerless 2.5" TC7FD04 work as a mids?
I saw the formula 2xFs/Qes should be around 530 for suitable drivers. This 2.5" fullrange driver has Fs=202, Qes=0.88 so it is slightly lower at 469 but still in the ballpark..
What results could I expect from this driver? Where can I expect to high and low pass these drivers? Is its 1mm xmax sufficient?
I want to build a horn for hifi use so high Spl is not needed. I plan to not use a compression driver but a xt25 ring radiator tweeter and cross over to two Dayton 10" classic woofers, one above and one below the horn.
I have easy access to Peerless drivers. Most other things are hard to get in Thailand and local stuff always comes without T/S parameters.
Another thing that still confuses me after hours of reading.....what is the difference between a Unity and a Synergy horn? It seems many people use the terms interchangeably but I know they are not the same.
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Hi
I have desided using visatons 3 incher and two in one horn, both in a corner low in throat as normal is done, I did learn long ago, never do put a speaker excacly in the middle, always some offset.
thanks for respons.
I just did a quick sim in HR. I copied the horn dimensions of Bwalso in post #2195 for the sim he did for a tekton driver. I get nearly the exact same result but with about 8 dB more output. Looks like a crossover @1500Hz is possible? That would pair nicely with the XT25 tweeter....but maybe 4 mids is too sensitive for the XT25BG60-04 tweeter. Should I use only two mids in series?
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After simming the TC7FD I thought I try the TC9FD. I had actually already written these off since the FS is way too low @125Hz if you subscribe to the 2xFs/Qes formula. But to my surprise it looked very good in my non expert eyes. On paper the TC7FD should be way better but in my sims the TC9FD looks better.
What do you guys think about this sim? There are still 5dB wiggles in the response. Is there a way to smooth this further or will these variations in SPL be less pronounced in reality?
Another question....if I use 2 mids can i have 2 ports in 2 corners or is it better to make 2 ports for each driver to have a port in all 4 corners? If I make only 2 ports I can place them a little closer to the tweeter.
What do you guys think about this sim? There are still 5dB wiggles in the response. Is there a way to smooth this further or will these variations in SPL be less pronounced in reality?
Another question....if I use 2 mids can i have 2 ports in 2 corners or is it better to make 2 ports for each driver to have a port in all 4 corners? If I make only 2 ports I can place them a little closer to the tweeter.
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I've found that the 2xFs/Qes rule can be disregarded. It will never point to an unsuitable driver but it will cause you to disregard many that will work. OTOH, you can believe HornResp.
Those wiggles in the response are typical of horn mouth reflections. Different horn mouth terminations will give you different shape ripples. Look at the acoustic impedance graphs and see if you see are resemblance. With DSP, these can be equalized away.
The other thing that affects the shape of the mid's response, especially its rolloff, are the diamenter, location, and length ratio of the mid ports.
Regarding your earlier question about 2 mids vs 4, believe the HR simulation but know your actual listening level and be cautious about excursion. Those Peerless drivers had limited Xmax and you don't want to be listening near the linear excursion limits. The extra mids can buy you headroom which translates to sound quality but if you are truly listening at 80 or 90 db and not THX reference level, you don't need them
Those wiggles in the response are typical of horn mouth reflections. Different horn mouth terminations will give you different shape ripples. Look at the acoustic impedance graphs and see if you see are resemblance. With DSP, these can be equalized away.
The other thing that affects the shape of the mid's response, especially its rolloff, are the diamenter, location, and length ratio of the mid ports.
Regarding your earlier question about 2 mids vs 4, believe the HR simulation but know your actual listening level and be cautious about excursion. Those Peerless drivers had limited Xmax and you don't want to be listening near the linear excursion limits. The extra mids can buy you headroom which translates to sound quality but if you are truly listening at 80 or 90 db and not THX reference level, you don't need them
I think that is good advise. Those drivers are cheap so it can't hurt to use 4 to ensure headroom and lower distortion. I have 8 of them lying around anyway.
That is just for one specific alignment! Please [re]read posts #3-10 of this thread for how to use it, etc., though for low power apps others have already proven that with enough digital EQ/XO flexibility most any driver that can physically fit the 1/4 WL and vent length dimension requirements can be made to work 'well enough'.
The basic Synergy concept is just a more finely tuned variant to primarily achieve a flatter phase response over a wider BW or as some describe it, it's all about the XO design.
GM