Hi Everyone
I have had these speakers (Energy 22 Reference Connoseur) for a little while now, and with every upgrade of my equipment ahead of them, they keep sounding better. Of course, they sound bloody horrible being driven by crap electronics.
Anyhow, I am so happy with them, that I feel they are deserving of a complete restoration. They were the 2nd last set off 22's out of the factory, but they are still more than 15 years old. The cabinets (rosewood) are going to get a complete going over. More importantly, I want to rebuild and upgrade the crossover. Am not looking at making huge changes to it, but rather just rebuild it with modern, higher quality pieces.
Has anyone undertaken a project like this on the 22's? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Erik
I have had these speakers (Energy 22 Reference Connoseur) for a little while now, and with every upgrade of my equipment ahead of them, they keep sounding better. Of course, they sound bloody horrible being driven by crap electronics.
Anyhow, I am so happy with them, that I feel they are deserving of a complete restoration. They were the 2nd last set off 22's out of the factory, but they are still more than 15 years old. The cabinets (rosewood) are going to get a complete going over. More importantly, I want to rebuild and upgrade the crossover. Am not looking at making huge changes to it, but rather just rebuild it with modern, higher quality pieces.
Has anyone undertaken a project like this on the 22's? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Erik
I can only make some general recommendations:
Some photos would be nice, especially of the crossover.
A schematic of the crossover would be very helpful - all the components and their values, etc. - this will help others here to offer advice on what, or what not, to do with the x-over.
Check the inside of the cabs for bracing - they may be able to benefit from some additional if the factory went a little light on that.
What kind of condition are the drivers in? If you are planning to replace them, they would have to be the original types, or else you won't have the original speakers anymore; you might want to check with Energy to see if they carry replacements.
That's all I can offer - you'll find most people here build their own from scratch, or from kits or others' designs, so restoration of an older commercial model isn't as common a topic. But if you love your speakers then go forth and enjoy your project! Restoration is a commendable undertaking.
I still listen to my 30-year-old Yamaha NS-670s - I can't bear to part whith them, so I know where you're coming from!
Some photos would be nice, especially of the crossover.
A schematic of the crossover would be very helpful - all the components and their values, etc. - this will help others here to offer advice on what, or what not, to do with the x-over.
Check the inside of the cabs for bracing - they may be able to benefit from some additional if the factory went a little light on that.
What kind of condition are the drivers in? If you are planning to replace them, they would have to be the original types, or else you won't have the original speakers anymore; you might want to check with Energy to see if they carry replacements.
That's all I can offer - you'll find most people here build their own from scratch, or from kits or others' designs, so restoration of an older commercial model isn't as common a topic. But if you love your speakers then go forth and enjoy your project! Restoration is a commendable undertaking.
I still listen to my 30-year-old Yamaha NS-670s - I can't bear to part whith them, so I know where you're coming from!
Hi Erik,
Having worked for the company when they were still being produced I think I can jogg the memory enough...
The xover used a combination of poyester and electrolytic caps - 18db for the tweeter and 12db for the woofer. Replacing these would make sense if you plan to upgrade. The coil on the woofer was ferrite core so don't bother with that. The tweeter coil was air core and wound with 20AWG wire.
The xover was point to point wiring and all components were glued to a piece of masonite. I don't believe they went PCB until the new line came out.
The 22's had more than sufficient bracing in them. You could however replace the fibreglass as it may have shrunk over the years. It was an overdamped design so make sure you replace what you take out.
Really, not much else you could do for "upgrading". I recall coming across a few tweeters that leaked causing some problems, but unless you can get ahold of new units, there's not much you can do.
Hope this helps you.
Best,
Mark
PS: I still have a pair of 22 tweeters and one woofer if you want to do some experimenting - they are from the original 22 Reference.
Having worked for the company when they were still being produced I think I can jogg the memory enough...
The xover used a combination of poyester and electrolytic caps - 18db for the tweeter and 12db for the woofer. Replacing these would make sense if you plan to upgrade. The coil on the woofer was ferrite core so don't bother with that. The tweeter coil was air core and wound with 20AWG wire.
The xover was point to point wiring and all components were glued to a piece of masonite. I don't believe they went PCB until the new line came out.
The 22's had more than sufficient bracing in them. You could however replace the fibreglass as it may have shrunk over the years. It was an overdamped design so make sure you replace what you take out.
Really, not much else you could do for "upgrading". I recall coming across a few tweeters that leaked causing some problems, but unless you can get ahold of new units, there's not much you can do.
Hope this helps you.
Best,
Mark
PS: I still have a pair of 22 tweeters and one woofer if you want to do some experimenting - they are from the original 22 Reference.
hooha said:SD, you offered an excellent guideline for getting folks started on revamping their old equipment. Nothing disappointing there...
Mark
Thanks Mark!
BTW (total sidebar here) - I purchased two MAW10s from the guy noted on your site who had several for sale - they will be arriving Wednesday and when I have them set up I will probably be giving some feedback here on the forum. The seller was very happy with them and they seem to have a very high value-to-price ratio, along with the other drivers you sell.
I encourage the members of the forum to take a look at Mark's site if you haven't already - I especially like the small brass speaker spikes he carries - simple, easy to install and excellent price - I'll be ordering some very soon!
Cheers!
Hi Erik,
I answered your pm on AK, but will answer you here as well. I didn't realize that you have moved up to the ref conn's--I thought you had the pro or ref 22's. Maybe I should jump in and restore my ref conn's at the same time you are doing yours--might be fun to compare notes (though mine are teak, not rosewood
). As you know, I need to get my tweeter fixed, but our crossover upgrades should be similar. There are a few old posts on Audio Asylum where people have modified their ref conn's.(the usual cap/coil modificiations, plus moving the binding posts and adding a bit of weight to the 'base/feet'. A search should find those posts. I think the cabinet bracing should be fine---that was really stressed when these were built. I know from listening to my one speaker that these are quite special and should be worth the cost/effort.
I have a friend at work who also has a pair of oak ref conns and would be happy to see what could be done to them. I also know a shop here that has a pair of ref 22's for sale; it might be interesting to compare their internals to the connoisseurs'.
Mark: wow, insider information--what more could we ask for! What is your overall assessment of these speakers? I noticed you are also in Winnipeg---perhaps I could bug you for more information sometime?
best,
Steve.
ps: for info and specs from Energy scroll down this site for a pdf file: Pro 22 and the Pro 22 Reference Connoisseur Brochure and Specs
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/classic-lines.php
I answered your pm on AK, but will answer you here as well. I didn't realize that you have moved up to the ref conn's--I thought you had the pro or ref 22's. Maybe I should jump in and restore my ref conn's at the same time you are doing yours--might be fun to compare notes (though mine are teak, not rosewood
). As you know, I need to get my tweeter fixed, but our crossover upgrades should be similar. There are a few old posts on Audio Asylum where people have modified their ref conn's.(the usual cap/coil modificiations, plus moving the binding posts and adding a bit of weight to the 'base/feet'. A search should find those posts. I think the cabinet bracing should be fine---that was really stressed when these were built. I know from listening to my one speaker that these are quite special and should be worth the cost/effort.I have a friend at work who also has a pair of oak ref conns and would be happy to see what could be done to them. I also know a shop here that has a pair of ref 22's for sale; it might be interesting to compare their internals to the connoisseurs'.
Mark: wow, insider information--what more could we ask for! What is your overall assessment of these speakers? I noticed you are also in Winnipeg---perhaps I could bug you for more information sometime?
best,
Steve.
ps: for info and specs from Energy scroll down this site for a pdf file: Pro 22 and the Pro 22 Reference Connoisseur Brochure and Specs
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/classic-lines.php
I'm amazed that there are still Conny's floating around these days...
Spind, PM me and we'll get together to do some modding (if you want to of course). We can dissect my Reference 22's.
SD, good catch on the 10's. It sure was a freaky accident that sent the previous owner packin' his stuff...
I'm always interested to hear what others think of the stuff I bring in. My viewpoint is always so skewed for some reason.
Best,
Mark
Spind, PM me and we'll get together to do some modding (if you want to of course). We can dissect my Reference 22's.
SD, good catch on the 10's. It sure was a freaky accident that sent the previous owner packin' his stuff...
I'm always interested to hear what others think of the stuff I bring in. My viewpoint is always so skewed for some reason.
Best,
Mark
and the crossover:
-on the lower left a red wire comes in from the speaker post (not shown): it goes through the iron core inductor and then to the red woofer wire; in parallel to the red wire branch branch point is a 47 uF bi-polar electrolytic in series with a 2 ohm 20 w resistor, which is connected to the black wire to the woofer and the black speaker post.
-for the tweeter, the positive goes through a 3.3 ohm 10 W resistor and then a 6 uF capacitor (top left); there is then a branch point with a 4.7 uF and a 6 uF capacitor in parallel (total 10.7 uF) which leads to the tweeter yellow (+) wire; from the branch point a 1 ohm 20 W resistor is in series with an air core inductor and then the black speaker terminal (blue wire goes to tweeter)
-on the lower left a red wire comes in from the speaker post (not shown): it goes through the iron core inductor and then to the red woofer wire; in parallel to the red wire branch branch point is a 47 uF bi-polar electrolytic in series with a 2 ohm 20 w resistor, which is connected to the black wire to the woofer and the black speaker post.
-for the tweeter, the positive goes through a 3.3 ohm 10 W resistor and then a 6 uF capacitor (top left); there is then a branch point with a 4.7 uF and a 6 uF capacitor in parallel (total 10.7 uF) which leads to the tweeter yellow (+) wire; from the branch point a 1 ohm 20 W resistor is in series with an air core inductor and then the black speaker terminal (blue wire goes to tweeter)
Attachments
i upgraded my ref 22's last year using northcreek caps, 12g inductors and their resistors, silver wire for the tweeters and big copper pipes for the woofers (and bi-wired it). the xovers are too large to fit easily inside the cabs. i have the xover diagram that was sent to me by a very kind energy employee if any one is interested. in all honesty the sound didn't improve much. i did enjoy doing it though!
rtenyes:
It would be great to see the crossover Energy supplied you for the 22's. If you have some way to upload the schematic here it would be much appreciated. Was your original crossover mounted on the back of the terminal cup? I just 'lifted' this picture form a current e*ay auction:
Steve.
It would be great to see the crossover Energy supplied you for the 22's. If you have some way to upload the schematic here it would be much appreciated. Was your original crossover mounted on the back of the terminal cup? I just 'lifted' this picture form a current e*ay auction:
Steve.
Attachments
steve:
my xover looks exactly the same as the first pic (as apposed to the one you just posted) except the mine has (2) 25uf caps in parallel in the woofer section as apposed to the "47"uf that's supposed to be there. it too is mounted on the 1/4 hardboard and then has epoxy on the components. as far as the schematic goes, i'll have to scan it in and figure how to upload! (is there a fac on uploading?)
ross
my xover looks exactly the same as the first pic (as apposed to the one you just posted) except the mine has (2) 25uf caps in parallel in the woofer section as apposed to the "47"uf that's supposed to be there. it too is mounted on the 1/4 hardboard and then has epoxy on the components. as far as the schematic goes, i'll have to scan it in and figure how to upload! (is there a fac on uploading?)
ross
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