A little "legal" advice on a design similarity

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Hi all,

A friend of the forum forwarded to me this site, whose proprietor has a patent pending on a design eerily similar to mine from a few years ago.

First, is his design lifted from mine? Is that even a pertinent question? His are a horn and a FR design; mine is neither.

What say those in the business? Should I pursue this or should I just be flattered?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Do you know for sure that he has actually submitted for a patent, or is the only clue that he says "Patent Pending" on his website? I'm by no means a lawyer, but I thought I remember being told once that sometimes people just put "Patent Pending" to try to ward off people from taking the design and patenting it.

-Scott
 
Hello.
I'm not an expert on this subject but:

First of all, you can check if he really made a patent demand. If it is the case, check the demand date . If you can prove that your design was published before, no problems, the patent should be refused I think, if you advise the patent agency. From what I understand, you cannot patent anything that has been published.

And check what part of this design is "patent pending". I'm not convinced at all that you can patent a tube transmission line, whatever the shape...

F
 
kneadle said:
First, is his design lifted from mine? Is that even a pertinent question? His are a horn and a FR design; mine is neither.

Dave,

I remember noticing your design when you posted it on this website and how similar it was to one of my test speakers from about 7 years ago. But it wasn't a full-range, using a Focal tweeter in a 'branch-pipe' off the main one.

But mine was also based on another design (a fixed diameter pipe design, like yours). Mine was a tapered TL (going from 10cm to 8 to 6 via standard fittings). It looks like the one you posted was an expanding TL.

In all these cases, unless your design is specifically copied then you won't get very far - and in this case, you cut all your PVC pipe to fit, whereas this guy has used standard pipe fittings. Hey, he's stolen my idea :)!
 
Yeah, see, I've never made any claims to originality myself because I was positive I wasn't the first to think of it or implement it. But that's the point: how can anyone patent an idea that isn't original? What's original here, the spiral? The horn? The combination of spiral, PVC, horn and/or FR design?

Oh well. I'm not terribly worked up about this. It just seemed worthy of attention.

Good artists borrow; great artists steal.

Dave
 
kneadle said:
Good artists borrow; great artists steal.

Definitely with you on that one. I remember a show which explained how a number of artists used their apprentices/pupils to create much larger volumes of work than they would have been able to create by themselves.

In this case, it's difficult to tell what the originality is. And I wasn't accusing you of not being original - as that clever sound absorbing stuff on the outside of your enclosures is definitely the buzz!

I had definitely seem PVC pipe speakers before, but they were mostly speaker attached to pipe/straight pipe leading to the ground(base) and then sometimes curving up a bit.

Mine were essentially 'snake speakers' Free-standing with one-and-a-half coils to the ground, then a full coil on the ground, and then the 'tail' in the air. Did I mention they were joined together with grease only, so that the shape could be altered at will.

Yours went a step beyond, by actually cutting the bits to shape and glueing them together and then mounting them up high.

This new one has reinvented my wheel, but hasn't impinged on yours - yet. If someone comes out with a similar idea but based on the sections being cut to shape, then I'd say you have something to follow up on.

Based on Aussie retail prices, his price doesn't have much of a mark-up unless he's not including stuffing for the pipes - in which case, they'll sing (but possibly not in the way he's intending).
 
My idea came from Rob Sampson's Audio Lego and a desire to have a really big speaker in a compact form.

Right now I'm working on a variation (if I ever have time) for a TL subwoofer. It's tentatively called "Buddha Bass" until I actually build it; it'll be a squat little man-shaped thingy holding a woofer in his lap, all made from winding pipe like a 1950s era sculpture.

So progress goeth.

Dave
 
I didn't read anywhere in this thread (unless I missed it) that anybody intends to sell their design. If you don't intend to try to commercialize the design, sell kits etc. there isn't much reason to get a patent, and then only if you feel you can sell enough to recoup the costs.
 
kneadle said:
Hi all,

A friend of the forum forwarded to me this site, whose proprietor has a patent pending on a design eerily similar to mine from a few years ago.

First, is his design lifted from mine? Is that even a pertinent question? His are a horn and a FR design; mine is neither.

What say those in the business? Should I pursue this or should I just be flattered?

Thanks,
Dave

Here's the deal:

If you made a design and published it years ago, a valid patent cannot be established by anyone anywhere now.

For U.S. patents filing must occur within one year of publication. In a dispute, first to invent has priority, so even if you didn't publish but as long as you can prove the invention date, you can't be prevented from practicing your invention.

Almost all other countries require filing before publication. Also first to file is the winner in these countries.

Sheldon
 
sdclc126 said:
I didn't read anywhere in this thread (unless I missed it) that anybody intends to sell their design.

According to the website, you can buy a pair for $1200 assembled or $580 with some assembly required. And that doesn't even get you the cool catepillar eyes or spots and certainly not the bamboo stands. I really like the Seraphim design and the thread related to its construction is amazing. That doesn't answer the legality of the situation.

You should just contact this person in a year and casually ask how many s/he has sold. If it's a lot, ask for your Royalty check.
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2004
PVC tubing seems to be popular these days, hell even Linkwitz is messing around with the stuff.

I'm pretty sure its next to impossible to patent a shape ie. a coil, a circle etc. And as others have already said, the other designs specifics are already patented or completely non revolutionary and couldn't be any more boring. I mean come on a Horn with a FR drivers in a PVC pipe? How much generic can this get?

It sounds like you've got over the whole thing any how. Personally I'd be flattered that some possibly saw my design and copied it. Or maybe they're sat at home right now smiling because they think they're onto something unique that hasn't been done before.
 
ShinOBIWAN said:
Or maybe they're sat at home right now smiling because they think they're onto something unique that hasn't been done before.
Now I feel pity because it reminds me of my PhD dissertation research. I'd spend a few months tracking down a topic, thinking I'd just revolutionized the interpretation of this or that data, then, just before I'd present my thesis to the faculty, right after I'd put together a 10-page bibliography, I'd find a dissertation by some sap at some obscure university from 50 years before.

So I'd call my advisor: "postpone the meeting, Andy, I've got nothin'...Yeah, someone else already thunk it."

Good times.
 
First off, let me say that I am neither a lawyer nor an expert in patents. My only experience is as my employers liaison to our intellectual property attorneys.

That said...

In most jurisdictions, it is an offence to use "Patent Pending" without actually having a unabandoned patent application in process, so we have to assume that there is an actual application. Of course, unless we know what is being patented we can't know if there is any infringement on existing intellectual property or if there is any prior art which would prevent approval of the patent. As "The One and Only" said in another thread recently, "the devil is in the details."

The only way to be certain is to dig a bit deeper and see if you can find out which patent application is being referenced. And when you read the whole document, pay particular attention to the Claims section, as that will contain the enforceable invention(s) should the patent be granted.

:)ensen.
 
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