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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th February 2020, 10:45 PM   #911
valtergio is offline valtergio  Italy
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Yes, i was currently use 10 averages.
The work will be to make the new measurements and compare from different situation, from listen position with and without absorbent on the floor, and at 1 meter.
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:33 AM   #912
Dkalsi is offline Dkalsi  United States
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Default I tried....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Dkalsi, I've attached a step by step I wrote down at some point after I had struggled a bit with figuring out the same problem.
Ergo,

I tried to follow the directions you posted, at least up until adjusting the amplifier to output 2.83v (i.e. Step 4). However - I still can't get the mic to produce accurate SPL reading. I even have a "Sound Level Calibrator".

I used the formula provided in your PDF (i.e. 10^(dbgain/20)) - which in my case approximated 0.63 = 10^(-4db/20) <--because -4db corresponds to the lowest setting when the input gain knob on the Focusrite 2i2 is turned alway the way down.

What is interesting is, (after following your instructions through Step 3), I get accurate SPL reading when I'm in the Tools-->Third Octave SPL and Loudness --->Generate Pink Noise. When I do this and hold an SPL meter right next to the mic - the measured response in ARTA and the measured response on my SPL meter are spot on (+/- 1db).

However, when I'm in impulse response mode --> Single-gated smoothed frequency response/spectrum - the graphed SPL is about 10db higher.

Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong?!?
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:47 PM   #913
valtergio is offline valtergio  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik F View Post
Naw...easy. I'm new to ARTA also but it will take the averages for you. Just set it up as before. Tell it to run 20 cycles. Then apply some smoothing after.
Hi Erik,
so you were right, the 1 meter measurement has a regular phase.
Listening point 2,60 meter and 1 meter.
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File Type: jpg MLS_100cm.JPG (138.2 KB, 74 views)
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Old 16th February 2020, 12:39 PM   #914
Erik F is offline Erik F  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valtergio View Post
Hi Erik,
so you were right, the 1 meter measurement has a regular phase.
Listening point 2,60 meter and 1 meter.
Cool. It's fun to see how different mic positions change the response of a speaker. As an audiophile I get so focused on how it has to be this way or it has to be that way, but in the end there are so many variables outside our system that effect the sound...sometimes it's just better to sit back and know it will never be perfect and enjoy the music. Enjoy!
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:19 PM   #915
Erik F is offline Erik F  United States
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I am trying also to calibrate ARTA. I am trying to get a 1KHz signal to match the reading I get in Clio Pocket. Using Clio Pocket as the source. I see that using spectrum in ARTA the it is always smoothing at least 1/24th. With out setting Clio to 1/24 smoothing there is about a 10-12 dB difference using dBV scale for both. When I set Clio to 1/24 smoothing I am about 1or 2 dBV off. If I do an impulse measurement of the same signal is closer. I have attached a few pics. What I am unclear on is, once calibration is done, wouldn't adjusting levels on the sound card throw off calibration? Shouldn't ARTA have some way of controlling level from within? I see it can go as low as -20 dB for some measurements but in my system for spl measurements that isn't enough attention? I am not an electronics expert and don't have much experience using scopes. Mostly just acoustics.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20200215_075309.jpg (790.6 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200215_075300.jpg (972.8 KB, 64 views)

Last edited by Erik F; 16th February 2020 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:51 PM   #916
valtergio is offline valtergio  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik F View Post
Cool. It's fun to see how different mic positions change the response of a speaker. As an audiophile I get so focused on how it has to be this way or it has to be that way, but in the end there are so many variables outside our system that effect the sound...sometimes it's just better to sit back and know it will never be perfect and enjoy the music. Enjoy!
Thanks and enjoy to you.
my speaker sounds pretty good, i have been optimizing the crossover for 2 years.
it's amazing how every time after an improvement the sound increases the resolution of the recording content and this allows us to understand that something can still be done to improve.
the development of an audio system is a path made of stages, like a Matryoshka, every time you solve a problem that leads to a great improvement of the sound new information appears that before you didn't know it existed, it's like the matryoshka until you remove the top layer you don't see what's underneath.
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Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM   #917
Erik F is offline Erik F  United States
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Arta feeding ClioPocket 1k sin at 1V and ClioPocket feeding Arta 1k sin at 1V...I'm assuming since they are both reading the same I have Arta calibrated properly? I did this with inputs on the Steinberg UR22MKII turned down all the way and Output gain turned up all the way. I did this so it is easy to keep calibration set( I don't have to recalibrate it I bump a gain knob). I was surprised that it still passes signal with inputs turned down all the way. But it seems to work.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20200217_013023.jpg (879.4 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Erik F; Yesterday at 04:47 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM   #918
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Location: Bremerton, WA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik F View Post
Arta feeding ClioPocket 1k sin at 1V and ClioPocket feeding Arta 1k sin at 1V...I'm assuming since they are both reading the same I have Arta calibrated properly?
You can't possibly be calibrated correctly. You're showing 40dbV for a 0dbV sine input.

Dave.
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Old Yesterday, 05:04 PM   #919
Erik F is offline Erik F  United States
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Sorry looking at it I can see how you would think that. I have cursors set as close to ok as I could get. If you look at the bottom left of each screen they are reading -2.5ish dBV. The cursors make it look like it's at 40dBV.

Last edited by Erik F; Yesterday at 05:14 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 05:53 PM   #920
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Ah yes, I see what you mean. Sorry about that.
I'm irritated at myself for not noticing that.

Carry on.

Dave.
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