I just received a used Avalanche 18 and noticed a couple of sections of the surround that are completely separated from the basket.
Is there a suitable adhesive locally available? I don't want to wait to order it from a speaker repair place.
Will contact cement work, or will that eat into the surround?
How about weatherstrip adhesive?
Thanks
Is there a suitable adhesive locally available? I don't want to wait to order it from a speaker repair place.
Will contact cement work, or will that eat into the surround?
How about weatherstrip adhesive?
Thanks
noah katz said:
I've always used 100% silcone caulk for trouble spots between the diaphram and surround (foam included) with never any serious problems beyond added mass. However that's compliant and might not be best between surround and basket? Perhaps a poly glue that foams (like gorilla glue or the weaker elmer's version).. it always looks like "brown".
Loctite 410 or 411. Fastenal carries the stuff in little tiny tubes, like 20 ml tubes. That's enough to secure the surround and spider of a typical 15" driver to the frame.
Spread the glue under the spider, then replace the rubber gasket to hold the surround down to the frame while the glue dries. Give it a good 24 hours.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®
Spread the glue under the spider, then replace the rubber gasket to hold the surround down to the frame while the glue dries. Give it a good 24 hours.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®
Thanks Dan!
The original adhesive is a yellowish, fairly stiff but stretchy stuff.
Do I need to scrape it off or will 411 (there's a Grainger's near me that carries it) stick to it?
It's hard to tell how much I need to do; the surround is pretty thick and stiff, so when I lift it I may be pulling more away.
Will the 411 wick into the gap or do I need to fully apply it to one or both surfaces?
Thanks
The original adhesive is a yellowish, fairly stiff but stretchy stuff.
Do I need to scrape it off or will 411 (there's a Grainger's near me that carries it) stick to it?
It's hard to tell how much I need to do; the surround is pretty thick and stiff, so when I lift it I may be pulling more away.
Will the 411 wick into the gap or do I need to fully apply it to one or both surfaces?
Thanks
Hmm, I don't see how to edit posts.
Anyway, by pushing from behind I can tell where it's become unattached.
The problem with scraping off the old adhesive is that I can't do it all the way to where it's still adhered without pulling it further away.
I guess the best thing would be to pull it off all the way around, but I'm afraid the voice coil will lose centering.
Then I'd have to cut off the dust cap, which I don't know if I can do without damaging the cone, to shim the VC.
Anyway, by pushing from behind I can tell where it's become unattached.
The problem with scraping off the old adhesive is that I can't do it all the way to where it's still adhered without pulling it further away.
I guess the best thing would be to pull it off all the way around, but I'm afraid the voice coil will lose centering.
Then I'd have to cut off the dust cap, which I don't know if I can do without damaging the cone, to shim the VC.
Assumption:- surround = foam seal?
I don't see how removing the surround would make the cone loose its centre if its still attached to the chassis.
Anyway, theres a clue here. If its coming off, the manufacturer didnt feel the need to use a really strong glue. Its usually held in place between the chassis and woodwork. It probably pealed away because it stuck to the cabinet. All you need to do is hold it in place until you bolt it into its new home, so don't over do it.
I wouldn't use an anaerobic advesive like Loctite because foam will not exclude the air to enable a cure. I would have thought a rubberised contact glue would be just fine. Use the one with all the nasty solvents. They work best .........and it gives you something to do while it sets.
If its not the foam seal - ignore everything above
I don't see how removing the surround would make the cone loose its centre if its still attached to the chassis.
Anyway, theres a clue here. If its coming off, the manufacturer didnt feel the need to use a really strong glue. Its usually held in place between the chassis and woodwork. It probably pealed away because it stuck to the cabinet. All you need to do is hold it in place until you bolt it into its new home, so don't over do it.
I wouldn't use an anaerobic advesive like Loctite because foam will not exclude the air to enable a cure. I would have thought a rubberised contact glue would be just fine. Use the one with all the nasty solvents. They work best .........and it gives you something to do while it sets.
If its not the foam seal - ignore everything above
go to a local bodyshop or where they sell car parts and buy this seal sold in roll which is very thin and is used to glue on both sides for door moldings you can turn it in circles,and it sticks like hell!!!
I used it tu isolate my bottom of the speaker box by glueing only 1 side,I didnt peel the other side so I can open the box and work on the xover when I need to.
I used it tu isolate my bottom of the speaker box by glueing only 1 side,I didnt peel the other side so I can open the box and work on the xover when I need to.
Noah,
Clean it as best you can. The Loctite rubberized CAs (411 is one of them) will bond to most things, and you only need to place it on the basket and apply pressure. The better you can clean the basket, through, the better the bond (as with all glues).
If you want to replace ALL the glue, then do it in stages. Do half of the surround/basket with the 411 now, let it fully dry (remember to clamp the surround down with the rubber mount gasket!), then do the other half.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®
Clean it as best you can. The Loctite rubberized CAs (411 is one of them) will bond to most things, and you only need to place it on the basket and apply pressure. The better you can clean the basket, through, the better the bond (as with all glues).
If you want to replace ALL the glue, then do it in stages. Do half of the surround/basket with the 411 now, let it fully dry (remember to clamp the surround down with the rubber mount gasket!), then do the other half.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®
Thanks Dan, that's what I'll do.
Pbassred,
Assumption:- surround = foam seal?
1. The with the surround detached, the spider behaves as a ball joint and will allow the front of the cone to move sideways
2. I haven't seen a rear mounted driver in decades
3. Loctite is a brand name and they make dozens of products besides their anaerobic thread lockers
Pbassred,
Assumption:- surround = foam seal?
1. The with the surround detached, the spider behaves as a ball joint and will allow the front of the cone to move sideways
2. I haven't seen a rear mounted driver in decades
3. Loctite is a brand name and they make dozens of products besides their anaerobic thread lockers
Dan,
I called a local bearing house and they mentioned Black Max 380; it's also rubberized and high peel strength like 411, and also gap filling.
Strength is similar to 411, and has a more workable set time than 411, up to a minute vs as little as 10 sec for the 411.
Any reason not to use it?
Thanks very much
I called a local bearing house and they mentioned Black Max 380; it's also rubberized and high peel strength like 411, and also gap filling.
Strength is similar to 411, and has a more workable set time than 411, up to a minute vs as little as 10 sec for the 411.
Any reason not to use it?
Thanks very much
Did I say rear mounted? You just said "surround" I still don't know what you meant.
Yes I know Loctite well. They have a plant in the next town. Anaerobic doesn't only refer to studlok. Many an aeroplane has been built (locally) using loctite products. This particular one happens to be a moisture cure. 411
The last few drivers I bought had gaskets with them including a 15" Peavey Black Widow which comes apart in lots of ways but not so that you could actually misalign them. Perhaps you mean that the CONE has become detached?
By the way
rear mounted avalanch 18s in sub box
Yes I know Loctite well. They have a plant in the next town. Anaerobic doesn't only refer to studlok. Many an aeroplane has been built (locally) using loctite products. This particular one happens to be a moisture cure. 411
The last few drivers I bought had gaskets with them including a 15" Peavey Black Widow which comes apart in lots of ways but not so that you could actually misalign them. Perhaps you mean that the CONE has become detached?
By the way
rear mounted avalanch 18s in sub box
Ok I get it.
We used to use 380 - as a pipe sealant ( completely wrong). It kept breaking so I called them up. One thing the Loctite guy stressed. Don't be tempted to "test" the joint.
Reason:- Initial curing time is around 60-120 seconds but thats only half the chemical bonds. The other half fix over the next 24 hours BUT if you stress the joint early, you will break some of those bonds which will never reform. It would look perfect but is only ever half strength.
I explained this to the shop floor and the problen almost completely vanished. You can also get a rapid activator spray but they reckon that patience makes a better joint.
Alternative stratagy: call Ascendant Audio in Illanois and see if you can bypass the sales wolves by makeing a "technical enquiry". I find that once you get past the front desk, the techies love to talk about what they do - espescialy if its music related.
Good luck
We used to use 380 - as a pipe sealant ( completely wrong). It kept breaking so I called them up. One thing the Loctite guy stressed. Don't be tempted to "test" the joint.
Reason:- Initial curing time is around 60-120 seconds but thats only half the chemical bonds. The other half fix over the next 24 hours BUT if you stress the joint early, you will break some of those bonds which will never reform. It would look perfect but is only ever half strength.
I explained this to the shop floor and the problen almost completely vanished. You can also get a rapid activator spray but they reckon that patience makes a better joint.
Alternative stratagy: call Ascendant Audio in Illanois and see if you can bypass the sales wolves by makeing a "technical enquiry". I find that once you get past the front desk, the techies love to talk about what they do - espescialy if its music related.
Good luck
"Don't be tempted to "test" the joint.
Reason:- Initial curing time is around 60-120 seconds but thats only half the chemical bonds. The other half fix over the next 24 hours BUT if you stress the joint early, you will break some of those bonds which will never reform. It would look perfect but is only ever half strength."
Thanks. The Loctite spec sheet makes it sound like the only thing lacking after a relatively short amount of time is chemical resistance.
I would have been tempted to use it sooner.
Reason:- Initial curing time is around 60-120 seconds but thats only half the chemical bonds. The other half fix over the next 24 hours BUT if you stress the joint early, you will break some of those bonds which will never reform. It would look perfect but is only ever half strength."
Thanks. The Loctite spec sheet makes it sound like the only thing lacking after a relatively short amount of time is chemical resistance.
I would have been tempted to use it sooner.
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