I live in a small apartment, and will for the forseable future.
I have some (what I consider), very accurate in ear monitors (Shure E4). These produce very accurate, and very good sounds, but since they are in your ear, do not produce any soundstage.
I am looking for something that will produce a huge soundstage for me, even though I am sitting around 5-8 feet away from my speakers in a small room. I could possibly make this distance larger, but maximum of 10 feet. I can't fit really tall speakers into the apartment since I am on the 4th floor with a tight stairwell, so I don't think a line array is for me, unless it's a smaller one.
I have 4 Dayton RS270s I am considering making into a subwoofer, so I am mostly considering the 100-20k range.
I have, let's say, 400 to spend on a pair in parts (let's not include wood, stuffing, etc, but x-over is included). I could go more if needed.
Any ideas into what I should look into? Also total SPL is not a huge concern as I can't really begin to start my system going with my neighbors. 100db is the max I'd consider.
This should give you an idea of the music I listen to if that is a concern:
http://www.last.fm/user/bjackson1/
Thanks!
I have some (what I consider), very accurate in ear monitors (Shure E4). These produce very accurate, and very good sounds, but since they are in your ear, do not produce any soundstage.
I am looking for something that will produce a huge soundstage for me, even though I am sitting around 5-8 feet away from my speakers in a small room. I could possibly make this distance larger, but maximum of 10 feet. I can't fit really tall speakers into the apartment since I am on the 4th floor with a tight stairwell, so I don't think a line array is for me, unless it's a smaller one.
I have 4 Dayton RS270s I am considering making into a subwoofer, so I am mostly considering the 100-20k range.
I have, let's say, 400 to spend on a pair in parts (let's not include wood, stuffing, etc, but x-over is included). I could go more if needed.
Any ideas into what I should look into? Also total SPL is not a huge concern as I can't really begin to start my system going with my neighbors. 100db is the max I'd consider.
This should give you an idea of the music I listen to if that is a concern:
http://www.last.fm/user/bjackson1/
Thanks!
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/intro.htm
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?read=361723
Cheers,
AJ
p.s. they would make great rears in a HT if you eventually move somewhere larger.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/discuss.cgi?read=361723
Cheers,
AJ
p.s. they would make great rears in a HT if you eventually move somewhere larger.
A superb speaker. An omni like the Linkwitz design would suit you best. Another option would be to try a bipolar type. If you wanted that, get 4 full-range units of your choice in your price-range (Tang Band or some of the smaller Fostex units) and use Martin's MathCad TL worksheets to come up with something.
Scott
Scott
You sort of answered your own question, I think!
A short line array (like Bill Fitzmaurice's "S.L.A.") would deliver the soundstage you like, yet still be portable and apartment-friendly.
I use one myself for center-channel duties.
The Linkwitz Pluto does look like a fine near-field speaker;
easier to build than a line array too.
A good dipole needs about four feet between it and the back wall.
I have my dipoles sitting three feet from the wall...and compensate with some wall treatment.
They're great.
All of these speaker systems need a subwoofer to flesh out their sound....
Good luck!
A short line array (like Bill Fitzmaurice's "S.L.A.") would deliver the soundstage you like, yet still be portable and apartment-friendly.
I use one myself for center-channel duties.
The Linkwitz Pluto does look like a fine near-field speaker;
easier to build than a line array too.
A good dipole needs about four feet between it and the back wall.
I have my dipoles sitting three feet from the wall...and compensate with some wall treatment.
They're great.
All of these speaker systems need a subwoofer to flesh out their sound....
Good luck!
Not to turn you away from persuing a nice set of monitors, but there is a solution to your headphone issues. Headphone.com sells some very nice headphone amps that will allow you to have an image when listening to your phones. Take a peek.
http://www.headphone.com/products/faqs/about-headroom-crossfeed/fixing-headphones-with-electronics/
DaveM
P.S. - I don't own a headroom amp, but I've heard them and I would highly recommend them if you are looking to get the "blob out of your head"
http://www.headphone.com/products/faqs/about-headroom-crossfeed/fixing-headphones-with-electronics/
DaveM
P.S. - I don't own a headroom amp, but I've heard them and I would highly recommend them if you are looking to get the "blob out of your head"
I've built a Pimeta with a linkwitz crossfeed, and I didn't like it at all. It was still in my head, but just.... LOL, hard to describe.....
I've had bigger cans, like the Grado 325i's, and they have much more of a soundstage, and work with the crossfeed circuit better, but I still much perfer my speakers....
I've had bigger cans, like the Grado 325i's, and they have much more of a soundstage, and work with the crossfeed circuit better, but I still much perfer my speakers....
You could also try a normal stereo setup with a Hafler matrix circuit. Remember, stereo doesn't have to mean just two speakers.
Keep your front speakers normal. Now place two small speakers to the rear of your listening position. Wire the positive terminals on the L & R rear speakers to their corresponding L & R positive terminals on the amplifier. Then wire the negative terminals of the rear speakers together. Add a switch so you can turn the rears off as and when required. That's it. Gives a massive soundstage for minimal effort, and better, it puts the reverb where it belongs -behind you. I've done this off and on for years, and it works superbly for a great deal of music, especially live recordings.
Cheers for now
Scott
Keep your front speakers normal. Now place two small speakers to the rear of your listening position. Wire the positive terminals on the L & R rear speakers to their corresponding L & R positive terminals on the amplifier. Then wire the negative terminals of the rear speakers together. Add a switch so you can turn the rears off as and when required. That's it. Gives a massive soundstage for minimal effort, and better, it puts the reverb where it belongs -behind you. I've done this off and on for years, and it works superbly for a great deal of music, especially live recordings.
Cheers for now
Scott
I guess my reaction to all this is - What is wrong with mini-monitors in the nearfield?
I've got my new ACI Sapphire XL's set up nearfield in a very tough room (7' wide, ~15' long). Speakers and listening spot are roughly at thirds, so the speakers are ~5' out from the back wall, and the listening seat is another 5' from there. The speakers are hard-up to the side walls, and toed in heavily so they cross *in front* of the listening seat. 2" acoustic foam on the wall right by the speakers. The results are very very good. Spacious soundstage, good precise imaging. Maybe not the absolute most holographic I've heard, but nothing to complain about at all.
The XL's really are very good, but they use the 5" Revelator woofers and Scan 9500 tweet, so that setup would blow your budget. For $400 though (assuming you cross to the subs actively) there are a lot of candidates in the 5-to-6 inch 2-way that might work.
I've got my new ACI Sapphire XL's set up nearfield in a very tough room (7' wide, ~15' long). Speakers and listening spot are roughly at thirds, so the speakers are ~5' out from the back wall, and the listening seat is another 5' from there. The speakers are hard-up to the side walls, and toed in heavily so they cross *in front* of the listening seat. 2" acoustic foam on the wall right by the speakers. The results are very very good. Spacious soundstage, good precise imaging. Maybe not the absolute most holographic I've heard, but nothing to complain about at all.
The XL's really are very good, but they use the 5" Revelator woofers and Scan 9500 tweet, so that setup would blow your budget. For $400 though (assuming you cross to the subs actively) there are a lot of candidates in the 5-to-6 inch 2-way that might work.
I guess I want to make big speakers because I have these 4 RS270's sitting around and it seems a shame not to use them.
I have Aurum Cantus G2Si's also sitting around, and it seems like I pick out a good midrange and I gots a speaker.
But it's a speaker designed for a much larger room, but whatelse do I do with them, because I'd rather not sell?
I have Aurum Cantus G2Si's also sitting around, and it seems like I pick out a good midrange and I gots a speaker.
But it's a speaker designed for a much larger room, but whatelse do I do with them, because I'd rather not sell?
Hi,
I would come backtp your original challenge of small room, limited space, open sound. I would stay simple here: single full range, no sub-woofer. In a small space you don't need pounding bass but but well defined bass sounds. Keep your RS270s for a future project. I am working on some ideas just for a situiation like yours. I would recommend trying a folded TQWT with FE103Es. There is a handy spreadsheet by John Rutter to approximate the interior dimensions. I made a pair with lesser drivers (old JBLs) just to see how small and inexpensive I could go and get a satisfying experience. I was very impressed with the results, although I will eventually upgrade the drivers in these enclosures. I was thinking to modify the design to have a bottom or rear facing mouth vent to make them a little less directional. But they still have a nice recognizable stage and good imaging (better when pulled away from the wall, but still good with a 1 foot space). These enclosures are elegant and small (for a TL!!) at only 22 inches high. Fostex also has an interesting BLH plan for the FE103. Might be a good project.
Best of luck.
Stuart
I would come backtp your original challenge of small room, limited space, open sound. I would stay simple here: single full range, no sub-woofer. In a small space you don't need pounding bass but but well defined bass sounds. Keep your RS270s for a future project. I am working on some ideas just for a situiation like yours. I would recommend trying a folded TQWT with FE103Es. There is a handy spreadsheet by John Rutter to approximate the interior dimensions. I made a pair with lesser drivers (old JBLs) just to see how small and inexpensive I could go and get a satisfying experience. I was very impressed with the results, although I will eventually upgrade the drivers in these enclosures. I was thinking to modify the design to have a bottom or rear facing mouth vent to make them a little less directional. But they still have a nice recognizable stage and good imaging (better when pulled away from the wall, but still good with a 1 foot space). These enclosures are elegant and small (for a TL!!) at only 22 inches high. Fostex also has an interesting BLH plan for the FE103. Might be a good project.
Best of luck.
Stuart
If you decided to buy a couple of FE103Es (and why not -they're stunning) then... that Fostex Factory horn design -you might not realise this (not many do) but you can double it a la Cain & Cain Double BENs to interesting effect. Gains 6 db of efficiency and couples better to the room. Looks impressive too! Just remember to keep the original compression chamber volume, or only fractionally increase it. I've tried it -it's different, and it works -one of the better psedo horns around I think. Huge soundstage, amazing imaging. There's probably only a couple of pairs like this in the world, so you'd also have the satisfaction of doing something very different! Alternatively, you could double a Buschord MK2 in the same way...
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
bjackson said:
Well if you already have the G2Si's and a subwoofer I would definatly take advantage of what you've already got. Personally if I were in your shoes I would buy a pair of Fostex fe168e sigmas. You could then put them in a sealed enclosure with a simple first order crossover to the Aurum Cantus G2Si's where ever you saw fit (7-10kHz?). You'ld probably want to rolloff the bottom end of the fe168's maybe a passive line level crossover around 100Hz. I think this could lead to a very nice sounding high effeciency system.
Joe
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