Well, my current receiver is a Technics SA-DX950, 100W at 6 ohms, but my current speakers are KLH 9912 = 8 ohms... 75W from the receiver, 90dB on the speakers... Not loud enough for me. I've got a NAD T-752 in the shop now. So I got to thinking I should get some decent speakers.... $150 per speaker (for drivers) max.
I'd like something with 95-96dB sensitivity, but the LDSG is saying no way. I'm thinking maybe something like this to get me ~94dB:
MTM Setup:
Tweet: Peerless 811830 (DT100)
Mids: (2) Audax HM170C0 6.5" 91dB 60W ea, 43Hz Fs
The only other affordable 93-94dB setup I can think of is a TMMWW configuration:
(1) Peerless 811830 (DT100)
(2) Seas MP12VC 4.7" 90dB 90Hz
(2) Vifa P21W0-20-08 91dB 28Hz (Classic Series 10")
And even though this one isn't high sensitivity, here's the first combo I thought of (TMMW):
(1) Peerless 811830 (DT100)
(2) Vifa M10MD-39-08 (Classic Series 4")
(1) Peerless 850136 (CSX217H)
Any of those seem decent to you guys? Any better suggestions?
Thanks!
I'd like something with 95-96dB sensitivity, but the LDSG is saying no way. I'm thinking maybe something like this to get me ~94dB:
MTM Setup:
Tweet: Peerless 811830 (DT100)
Mids: (2) Audax HM170C0 6.5" 91dB 60W ea, 43Hz Fs
The only other affordable 93-94dB setup I can think of is a TMMWW configuration:
(1) Peerless 811830 (DT100)
(2) Seas MP12VC 4.7" 90dB 90Hz
(2) Vifa P21W0-20-08 91dB 28Hz (Classic Series 10")
And even though this one isn't high sensitivity, here's the first combo I thought of (TMMW):
(1) Peerless 811830 (DT100)
(2) Vifa M10MD-39-08 (Classic Series 4")
(1) Peerless 850136 (CSX217H)
Any of those seem decent to you guys? Any better suggestions?
Thanks!
You have very loud tastes! 
Do you *really* listen to them loud enough that the amplifier clips?
For my PA system, I use the Goldwood 10" pro woofers (94dB sensitive; Znom is listed as 8ohms but look at the impedance graph--these are 6ohm drivers) I got from Parts Express, #290-380. Tuned to 40hz in a 2cuft vented box, they're very loud. You should be able to get 114dB out of each of them in this configuration.
The downside is that they get thin midrange pretty fast; cross over at 200hz (yes really) to keep the sound from disappearing. Of course, this basically requires an active XO, because inductors that large are really hard to come up with.
For the top end of my sound system, I found some 5" full-range car speakers for $0.69 each and built open-baffle line arrays. With the treble control on the reciever turned all the way up, they actually sound quite tolerable to my ears. People with more discerning tastes balk...
Do you *really* listen to them loud enough that the amplifier clips?For my PA system, I use the Goldwood 10" pro woofers (94dB sensitive; Znom is listed as 8ohms but look at the impedance graph--these are 6ohm drivers) I got from Parts Express, #290-380. Tuned to 40hz in a 2cuft vented box, they're very loud. You should be able to get 114dB out of each of them in this configuration.
The downside is that they get thin midrange pretty fast; cross over at 200hz (yes really) to keep the sound from disappearing. Of course, this basically requires an active XO, because inductors that large are really hard to come up with.
For the top end of my sound system, I found some 5" full-range car speakers for $0.69 each and built open-baffle line arrays. With the treble control on the reciever turned all the way up, they actually sound quite tolerable to my ears. People with more discerning tastes balk...
You could also look at these kits from Adire Audio, the HE10.1 Mark II (95 dB / 1W / 1m) for 300$ per pair and the HE12.1 Mark II (96 dB / 1W / 1m) for 369$ per pair.
Everything is included, the crossover, the drivers. You add the wood and assemble.
Go in the DIY section and look under Kits menu on the left.
http://www.adireaudio.com/
Everything is included, the crossover, the drivers. You add the wood and assemble.
Go in the DIY section and look under Kits menu on the left.
http://www.adireaudio.com/
Reasonably cheap (here for 65 USD) Beyma 12BR70 95dB/2,83V/1m/halfspace. Or Beyma 12B100/R (for 145 USD) 94dB/.... Both from Studio Line.
I think the drivers should be even chaper in US.
More on www.beyma.com
I think the drivers should be even chaper in US.
More on www.beyma.com
Beta CX12 itself used within the kit HE12.1 mk II cost only 85 each.
Measurement of the low part can be found here: http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly/beta12cx.pdf
Measurement of the low part can be found here: http://www.prodance.cz/protokoly/beta12cx.pdf
That beta only has an Fs of 45.44Hz. I will be using this for movies and stuff too so I'd say that's a bit too high for me. The first link you gave had an Fs of 25Hz while still having a good SPL, though. So as long as I can get some opinions that they sound pretty decent, I think I may build a sub with 1 or 2 of those bad boys.
Thanks for the info, and please keep it coming guys, if anyone else has anything to chime in, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the info, and please keep it coming guys, if anyone else has anything to chime in, it would be much appreciated.
Those do look nice, MethMan. Can you comment on how they sound?
I can't, simply because the overall sound is more dependent on box, chosen xo freq. and other drivers used in system. Misfortunatelly I'm not golden-eared boy to listen to only Bass driver itself and then be able to say "good bass, bad bass". 12B100/R never heard.
Personally, I'm summing in my head 3+1 active closed system with 12"+ 2*6" hardcone+1" harddome+ sub. Preliminary xo freq. 70-160-2700. 12BR70 in closed 50-60 lt. has -3dB at 70 Hz.
I can't, simply because the overall sound is more dependent on box, chosen xo freq. and other drivers used in system. Misfortunatelly I'm not golden-eared boy to listen to only Bass driver itself and then be able to say "good bass, bad bass". 12B100/R never heard.
Personally, I'm summing in my head 3+1 active closed system with 12"+ 2*6" hardcone+1" harddome+ sub. Preliminary xo freq. 70-160-2700. 12BR70 in closed 50-60 lt. has -3dB at 70 Hz.
Of course it is hard to reach SW freq. with light-coned pro drivers, especialy if they has "no" magnet and insufficient Xmax. 12BR70 is also not very suitable for SW. Better to choose some long-throw heavy coned, thus non-efficient driver with suitable powerful amp. Second possibility is use huge professional driver with a good Xmax in relatively big enclosure and use active EQ.
I can only find one place in the US for that $65 speaker and it's like double that price
Sorry, can't help. Drivers are obviously cheaper in US than in Europe. Here they have 12BR70 in for 1600 - 1800 CZK. Divide it by 25. Toll and shipping are probably the difference.
But you have a numerous options to choose another. You are lucky boy. The offer in CZ is very narrow - Beyma, Seas, Monacor, Visaton or rubbish drivers from CZ, PL or from murky waters of FarEast Asia.
Prices are constructed like:
0.95 x (price in US + toll + shipping + tax) = price in CZ
price in CZ + (0-20)% = price in the rest of EU.
Some deviations sometimes occur.
Sorry, can't help. Drivers are obviously cheaper in US than in Europe. Here they have 12BR70 in for 1600 - 1800 CZK. Divide it by 25. Toll and shipping are probably the difference.
But you have a numerous options to choose another. You are lucky boy. The offer in CZ is very narrow - Beyma, Seas, Monacor, Visaton or rubbish drivers from CZ, PL or from murky waters of FarEast Asia.
Prices are constructed like:
0.95 x (price in US + toll + shipping + tax) = price in CZ
price in CZ + (0-20)% = price in the rest of EU.
Some deviations sometimes occur.
I started with the Adire HE12.1. I now use that woofer (in its enclosure) up to 500Hz. 500Hz to 3.5kHz is handled by an Audax PR170M0 on an open baffle. That's roughly 95dB-ish. 3.5kHz up is a Fountek JP-3.0 ribbon, which is also 95dB-ish.
It's more than $150 in drivers per side, but not a whole lot more. Let's see... the Audax midrange is $69, the Fountek ribbon was on sale when I bought it but now it's been replaced with a new driver, so that's about $80 now, I think I got mine for 65-ish. The Eminence woofer is $77. So that's below $250 per side, which is $200 over your budget for a pair. I've used less expensive tweeters, I still have a pair of Fostex FT17H horn tweeters that actually sounded pretty good. The ribbons are better, and they're more than 2x the cost. The Fostex tweeters would bring it a lot closer to your budget.
The PR170M0 starts to show breakup modes in its response at around 1.5kHz, but it sounds pretty good up a lot higher. I know people are using it up to 6kHz or more. I was too at one point, but right now I'm trying out the lower 3.5kHz crossover. Since you know what XO point you want, you probably have a tweeter picked out already?
The last pictures I took of my speakers:
With the Fostex tweeter and the baffle I had back then:
It's more than $150 in drivers per side, but not a whole lot more. Let's see... the Audax midrange is $69, the Fountek ribbon was on sale when I bought it but now it's been replaced with a new driver, so that's about $80 now, I think I got mine for 65-ish. The Eminence woofer is $77. So that's below $250 per side, which is $200 over your budget for a pair. I've used less expensive tweeters, I still have a pair of Fostex FT17H horn tweeters that actually sounded pretty good. The ribbons are better, and they're more than 2x the cost. The Fostex tweeters would bring it a lot closer to your budget.
The PR170M0 starts to show breakup modes in its response at around 1.5kHz, but it sounds pretty good up a lot higher. I know people are using it up to 6kHz or more. I was too at one point, but right now I'm trying out the lower 3.5kHz crossover. Since you know what XO point you want, you probably have a tweeter picked out already?
The last pictures I took of my speakers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With the Fostex tweeter and the baffle I had back then:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I picked up this on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3781733353
So I need a midrange that'll be good to 7-8kHz. The more the better, because I don't know how truthful that info is. (I don't have the graph - I figure that even if they suck, it's not a big loss, under $60 shipped for 2 planar tweets...)
So I'd like to throw an Alpha or Beta 10, (1 or 2) 4 to 6" midranges that'll cross high, and those tweets. If the tweets suck, I can always get better ones later.
Edit: I wonder if I'd be better off using 3 (!) 90dB midranges... with average sensitivity, 8kHz doesn't seem too uncommon.
So I need a midrange that'll be good to 7-8kHz. The more the better, because I don't know how truthful that info is. (I don't have the graph - I figure that even if they suck, it's not a big loss, under $60 shipped for 2 planar tweets...)
So I'd like to throw an Alpha or Beta 10, (1 or 2) 4 to 6" midranges that'll cross high, and those tweets. If the tweets suck, I can always get better ones later.
Edit: I wonder if I'd be better off using 3 (!) 90dB midranges... with average sensitivity, 8kHz doesn't seem too uncommon.
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