)Hi folks,
I'm also looking at the R2904/700k vs. 2905/930k
Here in Denmark, the's x4 price difference. Given that the 2904/700k has the huge price and (to me, as a beginner in speakers) a not exactly impressive frequency response, I fail to see it's justification.
Doesn't it require a lot of compensation in the X-over, or is the listener just meant to angle the speaker accordingly, until an appropriate sound level/frequency response is obtained in the listening position?
Jennice
I'm also looking at the R2904/700k vs. 2905/930k
Here in Denmark, the's x4 price difference. Given that the 2904/700k has the huge price and (to me, as a beginner in speakers) a not exactly impressive frequency response, I fail to see it's justification.
Doesn't it require a lot of compensation in the X-over, or is the listener just meant to angle the speaker accordingly, until an appropriate sound level/frequency response is obtained in the listening position?
Jennice
Ah. nice. A reasonable discussion on the merits of tweeters, including the information I was looking for on the ring radiator. On the thread I started, it is reduced to the lowest common denominator, whcih is not a good thing.
The directivity of the ring is not such bad thing in the spaces that such expensive speakers tend to be used. Lots of glass, older men with reduced HF capacity, etc.
I'm looking to use a tweeter in a commercially viable MTM two-way, with the Skanning C-quenze 18cm. I'm of two minds on this.
I prefer to use a triangulated positioning for the speakers as a final design point with the speakers 'generally' fired straight ahead. I tend to prefer this, to create 'airy' soundstaging. Without treble emphasis, I might add. I Also tend to prefer this 'straight ahead' design point to avoid the nasties out of a given woofer, as I also prefer to use quasi-second order for both midbass and tweeter. And then tune the phasing to suit the listening point, for the greatest clean 'air' in the passband and above range. It is beginning to look like I might have to go with a conventional design tweeter. BUT,and a big but, the extra sensitivity of the ring unit does mean it can be crossed at a lower point, when it needs to be padded down a bit.
The padding also alows for phasing control via filter mods, etc. Better phase coherence in the passband and better phase coherence in the lower ranges, or the main 'attack' or 'bite'. ranges that the woofer produces. ie, a more liquid, or faster sounding speaker. Every time you add a filter component, you rob the tweeter of a bit more energy..and thus..the higher starting efficency allows for this kind of filter mod. In my opinion, a given tweeter usage situation that is without padding of any kind or little padding room, robs you of this very desirable condition.
The paddding also allows for that very desirable sliding passband point, which is eseential for taming the woofer/tweeter matching. The MTM with quasi-second order is a real hair pulling nightmare to pull off, but it beats 24 and 18 db croosvers, in the general sense. In my opinion, it is worth the effort to fight to pull it off. The other drawback to the ring radiator, is seemingly it's rapid roll off. This practically diatates the low end crossover point for you, as it poses serious crossover point limitations. Roll-off slopes and phase agreenance points are suddenly dictated as opposed to reasoned and derived. .Especially for MTM's. As I stated, it is helped by the high efficency, though. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.
Any takes on that?
The directivity of the ring is not such bad thing in the spaces that such expensive speakers tend to be used. Lots of glass, older men with reduced HF capacity, etc.
I'm looking to use a tweeter in a commercially viable MTM two-way, with the Skanning C-quenze 18cm. I'm of two minds on this.
I prefer to use a triangulated positioning for the speakers as a final design point with the speakers 'generally' fired straight ahead. I tend to prefer this, to create 'airy' soundstaging. Without treble emphasis, I might add. I Also tend to prefer this 'straight ahead' design point to avoid the nasties out of a given woofer, as I also prefer to use quasi-second order for both midbass and tweeter. And then tune the phasing to suit the listening point, for the greatest clean 'air' in the passband and above range. It is beginning to look like I might have to go with a conventional design tweeter. BUT,and a big but, the extra sensitivity of the ring unit does mean it can be crossed at a lower point, when it needs to be padded down a bit.
The padding also alows for phasing control via filter mods, etc. Better phase coherence in the passband and better phase coherence in the lower ranges, or the main 'attack' or 'bite'. ranges that the woofer produces. ie, a more liquid, or faster sounding speaker. Every time you add a filter component, you rob the tweeter of a bit more energy..and thus..the higher starting efficency allows for this kind of filter mod. In my opinion, a given tweeter usage situation that is without padding of any kind or little padding room, robs you of this very desirable condition.
The paddding also allows for that very desirable sliding passband point, which is eseential for taming the woofer/tweeter matching. The MTM with quasi-second order is a real hair pulling nightmare to pull off, but it beats 24 and 18 db croosvers, in the general sense. In my opinion, it is worth the effort to fight to pull it off. The other drawback to the ring radiator, is seemingly it's rapid roll off. This practically diatates the low end crossover point for you, as it poses serious crossover point limitations. Roll-off slopes and phase agreenance points are suddenly dictated as opposed to reasoned and derived. .Especially for MTM's. As I stated, it is helped by the high efficency, though. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.
Any takes on that?
KBK said:
(laughing my a** off) You're right. Just like I think of Bang & Olufsen. By the time you can afford it, you can't hear the (lack of ??) sound quality, anyway. *he he* Admitted: Their new speakers sound good, but they cost a fortune.
Why? They still recommend 2.5 kHz minimum X-over frequency, but how do you utilize the sensitivity to do this lower X-over, and still obtain linear response?
Jennice
Perhaps I'm being a bit presumptuous. I am ASSUMING that they specified the powerhandling with the LF cut-off and slope (12db) in mind. Perhaps they specified them seperately. If that was tha case, in my mind, that would be falsification of the specifications. A flat out lie. If the equation is 94 db, at 12db per, at 2.5 khz...well...if you pad the tweeter down to 90db..that should give you a few more hundred hertz, at least, to move the crossover point down in frequency (lets assume 2.1Khz), while still maintaining the same excursion you had at 94db and 2.5khz. It may also give you more room to play with the slope shaping, for phase alignment with the woofer's top end.
yes, that is true..but the added effect, in that with the crossover component interaction, the control of the slope of roll-off is, well, more controllable. Simply due to the padding, in some ways. You can mix the padding in with 'slope control'. All kinds of way of doing things..... but you don't want to introduce too many elements into the crossover. Might kill the sound quality you spent all that money for. Modificaiton of the LCR circuit for the tweeter's impedance peak, for example.
sorry to dig up a very old thread..
so now that 6 years have passed since the last post, which is better, old classic D2905/99000 Revelator or Ring Radiator? I ma am very familiar with old Revelator, but have never heard the SS new flagship. Need new tweeters basically, they will be in a small 2 way using Scan-Speak 18W8531G sliced paper woofers. Should I use my old tweeters or go for the new ones?
so now that 6 years have passed since the last post, which is better, old classic D2905/99000 Revelator or Ring Radiator? I ma am very familiar with old Revelator, but have never heard the SS new flagship. Need new tweeters basically, they will be in a small 2 way using Scan-Speak 18W8531G sliced paper woofers. Should I use my old tweeters or go for the new ones?
The ring radiator needs a fairly high crossover point to sound the best - around 2.5Khz. At this point, the 18W will suffer from a little stored energy. I have built a 2 way around these drivers and can say that the D2905 is the better match. Sweeter in sound and perfect for vocals. To take it to another level, try the D2904 7100 version.
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