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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Driver for JBL 708-ish dimensioned 2-way
Driver for JBL 708-ish dimensioned 2-way
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Old 25th November 2021, 10:17 PM   #31
sheeple is online now sheeple
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beautiful!
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 AM   #32
sheeple is online now sheeple
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I'd like to read opinions on this comparison. Four 10-inch drivers, each equalized for a F6 of 36 Hz in a 30 liter vented box, fb = 40 Hz.

1) phl audio 3411 (193 €/pc), this driver is most possibly used in Genelec's S360A and I was could assure myself that the Pros do this sort of frequency bending too. It does need little support in sub bass but plenty in bass. It's group delay also peaks highest, but interestingly, this driver can be pushed forever, with ever more power, without hitting it's excursion limits.

2) FaitalPro 10PR320 (180 €/pc), this driver features the lowest Mms, which some people hold responsible for good mid range reproduction, hence needs a lot more assist at the very low end. It's motor is medium strong and Xmax approaches 8 mm.

3) Beyma 10G40 (107 €/pc), this speaker follows the Phl audio 3411 in Mms, with 52g, whilst 3411 is a stunning 58g. It does need little equalization in the bass, compared to both the Faital and the phl, but a good amount of support in sub bass, just as the Faital does.

4) SB acoustics WO24P (173 €/pc), this speaker has a relatively small Sd compared to the other 10-inch drivers, as it is somewhere in between 8 and 10 inch with only 255 cmē. It is tuned very low and hence for a flat response, must actually be damped to avoid a peak. On the other hand, maybe this peak could just compensate baffle step, but I am not sure about that. It is obviously a hifi driver, compared to the other pro monsters, which is visible in its max power capabilities. But it has generous xmax.


Black = phl, blue = faital, red = beyma, green = sbacoustics. In this order, the equalization filters are shown and can be judged.

Max power:
power.JPG
phl is basically unlimited.

Excursion:
excursion10w.JPG
Sb acoustics is hitting max excursion at 20 Hz, HP could be necessary for higher volumes.

Group Delay:
gd.JPG
Though phl is peaking highest, it is very controlled below fb. Faital and Beyma do equally well, not reaching the pedigree of of phl, while sb acoustic looses it at the very low end.

Transfer function:
tf.JPG
sb acoustic rolles of slowest, an would actually peak if not controlled by EQ. This could be used to compensate for baffle step.

SPL:
All pro drivers reside around 95 dB SPL at 2.7m (my current LP), sb acoustics only reaches about 88 db:
spl.JPG

I need some opinions before I invest. Obviously, Genelec chose the phl 3411 for a reason, it can be pushed enormously and it is good at the low end, but needs quite some support higher up (small Q, hig). The Faital draws the highest amount of energy for the equalization, though:

load.JPG
Amplifier apparent load per WinISD, still should not be a problem for the bridge-tied load 250 Watts of a Hypex FA123 amplifier.
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Old Yesterday, 01:39 AM   #33
WhiteDragon is offline WhiteDragon  United States
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The inductance of the driver clues in to what it can really do
for detail in the midrange.

Otherwise they will start adding copper rings to improve highend.

Critically listening monitors wont use live sound drivers.

And I would assume a actual .707 alignment would be much larger
than 30 liters.

Be more interested in matching the enclosure to the driver.
not forcing it into a known design.

If the manufacture publish the frequency response.
you can at least somewhat see by larger or smaller spikes in the upper response.
Do determine if the " highend" has actual detail, or its just emphasized
with cone breakup.

Be better to look at the actual QB3 or SC4 alignments and see what these
drivers actually want for airspace.

Home use they wont see more than 3 to 15 watts.

Last edited by WhiteDragon; Yesterday at 01:43 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:24 AM   #34
sheeple is online now sheeple
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With all due respect, this is the least helpful comment.

I am living in an active world and after gauging what the Pros did to their driver/enclosure combis, I am more confident than ever this is going to work out all fine. Le or box alignments do not matter, the response will be equalized anyway. Please do not congest the thread with analogue premises.

I invested a lot of time to narrow down drivers, I need comparative remarks for these four drivers with equalization as per WinISD and the given use case, which is active 30 liter box.
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Old Yesterday, 07:33 AM   #35
sheeple is online now sheeple
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Datasheets of the drivers:
- Phl audio 3411
- FaitalPro 10PR320
- SB Acoustics WO24P
- Beyma 10G40
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Old Yesterday, 08:08 AM   #36
PG56 is offline PG56
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hello, you might also consider the Dayton rs270-8 in closed box.
Dayton Audio - RS270-8 10" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM   #37
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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Hi sheeple

Did you probably mix up the Beyma and the SB acoustics regardig the colour of the curves in post #32 ?

Regards

Charles
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Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM   #38
fluid is online now fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeple View Post
Le or box alignments do not matter, the response will be equalized anyway. Please do not congest the thread with analogue premises.
They might be more relevant to passive crossovers but don't discount them completely as the less you have to 'fix' things with active circuitry or DSP the better the overall system design will be.


If a driver wants a much bigger box than the one you want to put in will mean that the EQ will be more substantial and that means more excursion or power or both.

Jag768's project is very similar to your goals and he went through three drivers before ending up at the RS270.

Cardioid project: DIY waveguide and passive cardioid midbass | AVS Forum

Do you want to go low or loud. The hifi woofers will easily go lower, the pro drivers louder.

Two 18sound drivers with well behaved responses and decent impedance responses to consider. 10W500 and 10NW750. Prices aren't outrageous at least when I log in
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM   #39
sheeple is online now sheeple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phase_accurate View Post
Hi sheeple

Did you probably mix up the Beyma and the SB acoustics regardig the colour of the curves in post #32 ?

Regards

Charles
I did, Charles!

Regards
Marinus

P.S.: Also, fluid, still lovin your login and I overstated my point to make clear this is of minor concern. Sure it does matter to some degree but is far less relevant than many other considerations when there is a DSP involved. I considered the Dayton driver once and then discarded it, maybe I will have a second look. Still, I’d be interested in opinions on the 4 drivers presented above, 30 liters vented at 40 Hz and equalized as per screenshots. Best, M.
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Last edited by sheeple; Yesterday at 10:23 AM.
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