I think that in 1988 I encountered an UFO.
The system was the successor ...the Marantz lasted two more years after the second change of bjts etc etc (1122 DC...yes baby!) And the new darlings where the new economy price infinity 4001 with trasparent, lovely poly cones. Well, those gigantic woofers during a 'session with the U2'...there's a bass ...that made happen a stationary wave...Crazy (lol)
The system was the successor ...the Marantz lasted two more years after the second change of bjts etc etc (1122 DC...yes baby!) And the new darlings where the new economy price infinity 4001 with trasparent, lovely poly cones. Well, those gigantic woofers during a 'session with the U2'...there's a bass ...that made happen a stationary wave...Crazy (lol)
Another One...then I quit: repairing a walkman ( or was I making a Frankenstein One?! Crazy lol) with the headphones on...a human probe,lol, well...those screechy sound craked my mind 
Tube amps would probably get you some nice even order harmonic distortion that would be pleasant. What about tube buffers? I use a Bottlehead Quickie tube preamp in one setup that sounds nice and warms things up.
I use some 12" sealed poly cone subs and they do a lot of what the OP wants to do. I also don't feel bad about driving them a bit harder. A lot of the older speakers I recall fitting the mold were stuff that had big ported cabs, and as mentioned before, high QTS woofers. If I wanted to do it all again. Maybe I would try pro audio drivers. You can get some nice sensitive drivers that have Fs around 30-40hz or so, which I think would do a lot of what those older big box speakers did, but with better thermal handling and the sort. A pronounced bass hump stands out in my mind with a lot of these speakers, kind of giving a scooped mids effect.
Someone did a 3 way I saw on YouTube that looked cheap and used an 18, in the vein of the JBL 4345. It ran an 18" Dayton PA460 as the bass driver. If I was looking to follow the sound OP is after, I would consider something similar.
DIY Speakers - YouTube
I use some 12" sealed poly cone subs and they do a lot of what the OP wants to do. I also don't feel bad about driving them a bit harder. A lot of the older speakers I recall fitting the mold were stuff that had big ported cabs, and as mentioned before, high QTS woofers. If I wanted to do it all again. Maybe I would try pro audio drivers. You can get some nice sensitive drivers that have Fs around 30-40hz or so, which I think would do a lot of what those older big box speakers did, but with better thermal handling and the sort. A pronounced bass hump stands out in my mind with a lot of these speakers, kind of giving a scooped mids effect.
Someone did a 3 way I saw on YouTube that looked cheap and used an 18, in the vein of the JBL 4345. It ran an 18" Dayton PA460 as the bass driver. If I was looking to follow the sound OP is after, I would consider something similar.
DIY Speakers - YouTube
There are plenty of expensive hifi speakers out there that sound boring. I know because I've owned a few.
It's entirely possible that a well designed speaker could give you everything that you want. You only have to look at Stereophile measurements to see that the most basic measurements (on-axis frequency response) are often all over the place. And this is quite often with well respected manufacturers. Look at the Kef Ls50 - Marketing will have you believe that this speaker is the perfect example of modern engineering. Then look at the measurements and compare that to the subjective opinions on hifi forums and you will see they are far from perfect. Some of the worst, most dull speakers I've ever owned measured with a very flat frequency response (Dynaudio), so although a speaker with a wonky response is flawed to start with, a flat response isn't guaranteed to sound great either.
I'm not convinced DIY is going to give you what you want (at least not easily). It would be much better to buy some secondhand classic speakers and move them on for very little, or no loss if they don't suit you.
I can highly recommend pinkfishmedia.net for advice on secondhand speakers.
It's entirely possible that a well designed speaker could give you everything that you want. You only have to look at Stereophile measurements to see that the most basic measurements (on-axis frequency response) are often all over the place. And this is quite often with well respected manufacturers. Look at the Kef Ls50 - Marketing will have you believe that this speaker is the perfect example of modern engineering. Then look at the measurements and compare that to the subjective opinions on hifi forums and you will see they are far from perfect. Some of the worst, most dull speakers I've ever owned measured with a very flat frequency response (Dynaudio), so although a speaker with a wonky response is flawed to start with, a flat response isn't guaranteed to sound great either.
I'm not convinced DIY is going to give you what you want (at least not easily). It would be much better to buy some secondhand classic speakers and move them on for very little, or no loss if they don't suit you.
I can highly recommend pinkfishmedia.net for advice on secondhand speakers.
Last edited:
Sounds more like the Original post just enjoys loud music.
And the assumption that a bunch of distortion is what makes that pleasing is absurd.
Also assuming speakers being pushed to mechanical limit is part of the enjoyment is also absurd.
Nobody wants to hear hard mechanically distortion, or a farting rattle box made with thin walls.
Speakers are already at 1 to 3 % distortion at low levels.
At 10% distortion that is what the manufacture considerers the Xmax rating of the speakers.
If you listen to music at high levels you most likely like the usual high 2nd or 3rd harmonics.
In a more realistic world.
Your still trying to build a nice speaker pair, following the usual rules of good performance.
Unlike most people who listen to music around 70 to 75 dB
with 1 to 3% speaker distortion
You just like loud music at 80 to 90 dB
with 5 to 9% speaker distortion
Just build a normal 2 way or 3 way speaker and enjoy it at higher levels like you usually do.
Making a leaking thin box or making a boomy small box wont add any magic pleasure to music. It will just sound like Krap.
Select drivers that you like and shoot for the usual butterworth alignments or Quasi Butterworth alignments for reflex/ported type boxes.
Or basically the good old 3rd order QB3
There is numerous " fullrange" drivers out there that make good mids in a 3 way system. And I would agree on you original statement of shooting for midrange clarity
and tweeters that dont crackle and shreak.
AS far as the " cranked" sound. Its loud music in general and extra harmonics you get from speakers.
It is definitely NOT a rattling thin box or a poor alignment or junk speakers in general.
But there is many paper type speakers and paper surround speakers
Even classic paper type tweeters. That will " warm" up a little at loud volumes.
I said " warm" not garbage distortion like many have described to aim for.
" Warm" as in 3 to 5% distortion which you can get from normal speakers of any kind.
Or even 3 thousand dollar magic tube amps LOL
And the assumption that a bunch of distortion is what makes that pleasing is absurd.
Also assuming speakers being pushed to mechanical limit is part of the enjoyment is also absurd.
Nobody wants to hear hard mechanically distortion, or a farting rattle box made with thin walls.
Speakers are already at 1 to 3 % distortion at low levels.
At 10% distortion that is what the manufacture considerers the Xmax rating of the speakers.
If you listen to music at high levels you most likely like the usual high 2nd or 3rd harmonics.
In a more realistic world.
Your still trying to build a nice speaker pair, following the usual rules of good performance.
Unlike most people who listen to music around 70 to 75 dB
with 1 to 3% speaker distortion
You just like loud music at 80 to 90 dB
with 5 to 9% speaker distortion
Just build a normal 2 way or 3 way speaker and enjoy it at higher levels like you usually do.
Making a leaking thin box or making a boomy small box wont add any magic pleasure to music. It will just sound like Krap.
Select drivers that you like and shoot for the usual butterworth alignments or Quasi Butterworth alignments for reflex/ported type boxes.
Or basically the good old 3rd order QB3
There is numerous " fullrange" drivers out there that make good mids in a 3 way system. And I would agree on you original statement of shooting for midrange clarity
and tweeters that dont crackle and shreak.
AS far as the " cranked" sound. Its loud music in general and extra harmonics you get from speakers.
It is definitely NOT a rattling thin box or a poor alignment or junk speakers in general.
But there is many paper type speakers and paper surround speakers
Even classic paper type tweeters. That will " warm" up a little at loud volumes.
I said " warm" not garbage distortion like many have described to aim for.
" Warm" as in 3 to 5% distortion which you can get from normal speakers of any kind.
Or even 3 thousand dollar magic tube amps LOL
Op wants to recreate an experience. As illogical or absurd as that may seem, it's what he wants to do. And who knows; what makes sense to an old codger like me can have nothing to do with what someone more fresh to the world likes and wants.
>I've always loved the pounding shaking boxy sound of cheap speakers pushed to their limit
For all anyone knows, it's not just OP; it could become the next big thing among a different generation. Or it could be specific to OP. Who knows? Watching someone else play video games seems to me to be a ridiculous pastime, but there are people who make their living producing such a product for others to watch. Who else sees in forum replies "watch this video - you'll see what I mean". I never watch a video when following a discussion thread; but it's a way of communicating for younger people.
Anyone remember Back to the Future when Marty McFly Plays "Johnny B. Goode"? No one in the audience liked the cut loose crazy part. Guitar amps of the era depicted werent built intending to distort and it took generations to acquire the taste. Today std rep almost every electric guitarist has, even someone like Pat Metheny can and will pull that at times.
You perhaps grow up with a sound, sometime later you want to re-create it. As strange as it seems, perhaps others identify with it and it sells if you can provide it. Pounding, shaky, boxy, compressed, distorted. Yum - not for me, but that doesnt mean a thing!
>I've always loved the pounding shaking boxy sound of cheap speakers pushed to their limit
For all anyone knows, it's not just OP; it could become the next big thing among a different generation. Or it could be specific to OP. Who knows? Watching someone else play video games seems to me to be a ridiculous pastime, but there are people who make their living producing such a product for others to watch. Who else sees in forum replies "watch this video - you'll see what I mean". I never watch a video when following a discussion thread; but it's a way of communicating for younger people.
Anyone remember Back to the Future when Marty McFly Plays "Johnny B. Goode"? No one in the audience liked the cut loose crazy part. Guitar amps of the era depicted werent built intending to distort and it took generations to acquire the taste. Today std rep almost every electric guitarist has, even someone like Pat Metheny can and will pull that at times.
You perhaps grow up with a sound, sometime later you want to re-create it. As strange as it seems, perhaps others identify with it and it sells if you can provide it. Pounding, shaky, boxy, compressed, distorted. Yum - not for me, but that doesnt mean a thing!
Last edited:
indeed, you have the mathematical best and neutral speakers, but some want a speaker with a certain sound, and that can be a boomy distorted sound. Suggesting to build a normal speaker does not answer the question that they have. They know it's not hifi, it's not ment to be hifi and with hifi they don't get the experience they want. Some even build big high power rigs that are very coloured in sound like in the dub and jungle dj scene, where a certain colouration is mandatory to sound like it should for that kind of dj sets.
And yes, you should also measure this and base this on the science of building speakers, the science does not change, the goal does.
And yes, you should also measure this and base this on the science of building speakers, the science does not change, the goal does.
The more I read all this, the more I am thinking that OP either track down speakers of that era with the sound he likes and then buy or build clones. There is sometimes something lost in translation when multiple people describe a sound or try to make sense of one's description. If you need a specific speaker model, it may be easier to accurately pinpoint what you're after.
I would think an EQ with the ability to shape the sound to a suitable house curve would be a practical approach to take. Lots of the older big box speakers were far from flat in the low end, and few truly hit 20hz. I would think a loud speaker built using somewhat sensitive drivers and a reasonable FS would take a beating from any EQ mashing someone did, and likely get the sound into OPs wheelhouse.
The guys I know who love that sound (or at least what I presume is the sound OP is after) love their EQ and can't live without one. Scooped miss are a big thing for them. Ymmv
I would think an EQ with the ability to shape the sound to a suitable house curve would be a practical approach to take. Lots of the older big box speakers were far from flat in the low end, and few truly hit 20hz. I would think a loud speaker built using somewhat sensitive drivers and a reasonable FS would take a beating from any EQ mashing someone did, and likely get the sound into OPs wheelhouse.
The guys I know who love that sound (or at least what I presume is the sound OP is after) love their EQ and can't live without one. Scooped miss are a big thing for them. Ymmv
Yep great suggestion, I've been scavenging the local thrift stores
Thanks I will consider this
I've looked into these and be wanting to listen to a pair, but there's none for sale yet in the area unfortunately, will keep looking
The speakers in the video sound full, the person must be happy with them. I think 18" speakers are unmatched for tone, I own a pair of JBL 2245's and it's the most beautiful low-end I've ever heard to date. The eventual speaker boxes don't need to go lower than 100Hz since I have those 18" subs
Contrary to what some describe, I do not seek mid-scoop, for what it's worth. Midrange is where it's at
You smelled me out there pal! Me wandering around these forums feels like that time I went to see King Crimson; A lot of appreciation of the beautiful, of the technical, and a lot of folks looking exactly like my dad...
Yes give it to me! I see you're running 15" Lii audio fullrangers with 18" assists... I think we would be able to find common ground!
I have a pair of Audio Nirvana 12" fullrangers in large semi-omnidirectional boxes aided by Visaton supertweeters (and 2245 subs when the music requires it). Driven by a DIY tube amp and a Quad 405 power amp. Vintage Denon CD player as source. The sound carresses my ears, I can't get enough of it. So real, life-like, immersive. They do everything, except for one thing; melt face
I'm a moody person and sometimes I seek aural aggression instead of hifi, reminiscent of being at a live metal concert, where sound rattles and shakes. I found my system is still lacking that, fullranges will never do such a thing. At the moment I'm trying to figure out what it is that creates that experience, so I can build it. Or maybe acquire it, if it provides a better cost/gain ratio. Hence the OP
Do research, build a system, love it to death, find fault with it, want something new or additional... Repeat. You know the drill
You want something like an Eminence Kappa 15 (fairly limited X-max, but decent excursion before damage) crossed over to a TWO INCH EXIT compression driver at 1200 Hz, L padded down some 10dB to match levels at 98dB/W. (Use an array of 20 or 50 watt resistors for at least a 200 watt rating. Seriously. They will get HOT. ). That increases the power handling of the HF driver so clipping isn’t an issue, and you can bypass the series resistor with a cap to EQ the falling highs above 5 or 8 k and get some more sparkle out of it. Cheap PRV or Selenium drivers are fine here - you want something with a 3 or 4 inch coil. Nothing smaller will do, don’t try. For power, use something like a QSC RMX1850 or crown macrotech 1200 designed to run at 2 ohms, and run it at 8 - and puts out about what the woofer can handle *continuously*. The real thermal limit is around 1/2 the AES rating. The speaker will be able to handle the full power and the amp should not overheat with that light of a load, even turned up to 11 or 15. With a rig properly set up like that you can turn it up till you can’t even tell what song is playing anymore and not blow anything.
Ah! One channel of this system can replicate a drum kit, so divided up for stereo is sufficient for small room apps and WRT performance what I once had: 20,000 Watt Home Hi-Fi System