Well, you see a lot of funny shapes that make no sense in an acoustical way in the audiophile segment. For me, I'd love to see the polars of any Wilson Audio speaker. But the lineup is a lot longer. Just my 2ct.
Here is measurement for Wilson Alexia Wilson Audio Specialties Alexia loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com. If you check out Fig. 5 in the link, I suspect all the "off-axis ridges" are due to diffraction (dips appear on-axis due to diffraction since the drivers are horizontally center of the baffle, and the graph is normalized to on-axis = ridges form off-axis on the polar graph. Easy to replicate in VituixCAD diffraction tool). This is one reason why the on-axis measurement graphs don't have much relation to actual sound.
The expensive audiophile stuff seems mostly be exotic thingamajigs and looks and good enough sound (or different sound than the other model you recognize) but as an example this one doesn't represent good measurements. When the off-axis measurements are not published by the manufacturer, it is all for marketing is my view and can be assumed the performance is not as good as it could be. Compromises for sound quality are made for "better looks" or for any other reason to differentiate in the market.
For example the Alexia has felt around drivers, which would be totally unnecessary if there was a waveguide or the baffle was smaller.. And I believe the designers know that, but this magic trick with felt, a solution for unnecessary problem, probably sells more. Anyway, these are luxury objects so they are more for boosting ego and showing off than pure audio quality, similar function as jewelry in my view. Nothing bad in that, just don't assume they sound any better than cheaper speakers.
This is relevant for the topic: DIY speakers don't have the marketing department so they don't have any value in that sense. Only value is for the DIYer, be it looks or audio quality or just perfect size, berrylium, what ever. Seldom they are cheap or perform any better, unless engineered so which takes time and money. When shopping for a kit, one has to look behind the "marketing" to see if the kit suits for expectation. It is not too difficult to better the Alexia audio in measurements but I'm sure Alexia can be sold for a lot more than any DIY speaker. Spending money is good thing if it brings joy and happiness ( expectations of value are met ) so nothing bad in that sense either. It is too easy to get disappointed though. Anyway, have fun, its all about fun so everyone should do what ever feels right
The expensive audiophile stuff seems mostly be exotic thingamajigs and looks and good enough sound (or different sound than the other model you recognize) but as an example this one doesn't represent good measurements. When the off-axis measurements are not published by the manufacturer, it is all for marketing is my view and can be assumed the performance is not as good as it could be. Compromises for sound quality are made for "better looks" or for any other reason to differentiate in the market.
For example the Alexia has felt around drivers, which would be totally unnecessary if there was a waveguide or the baffle was smaller.. And I believe the designers know that, but this magic trick with felt, a solution for unnecessary problem, probably sells more. Anyway, these are luxury objects so they are more for boosting ego and showing off than pure audio quality, similar function as jewelry in my view. Nothing bad in that, just don't assume they sound any better than cheaper speakers.
This is relevant for the topic: DIY speakers don't have the marketing department so they don't have any value in that sense. Only value is for the DIYer, be it looks or audio quality or just perfect size, berrylium, what ever. Seldom they are cheap or perform any better, unless engineered so which takes time and money. When shopping for a kit, one has to look behind the "marketing" to see if the kit suits for expectation. It is not too difficult to better the Alexia audio in measurements but I'm sure Alexia can be sold for a lot more than any DIY speaker. Spending money is good thing if it brings joy and happiness ( expectations of value are met ) so nothing bad in that sense either. It is too easy to get disappointed though. Anyway, have fun, its all about fun so everyone should do what ever feels right
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Anyone ever wondered why there are so many million loudspeaker models on the market? If people cared only about sound quality there would be only handful of models for different physical sizes (meet SPL requirements with min cost). This is mature technology. But the business has to be profitable or go bust. That is why there are the marketing dept. and million different models. Most designers know how to make good loudspeakers, but the person in suit then walks into the lab and says what needs to be changed for profitability. Then there needs to be the flagship product, the poster child for the Magazines, but it is going to be costly because the market is small and thus small sales. I suspect the money is made with legion of cheaper models that enjoy the same fame but have corners cut (except baffle corners) to reach the various price segments.
Anyway, everyone should put a marketing person hat on every once in a while. Thinking about why stuff is done like they are becomes lot easier and clearer when looking from the business side. I'm not professional in marketing or business though, straighten me up if you are and know the motives better Thinking like sales person maximizing profit helps one to become aware consumer, know what one is up against. Save the planet and be happy, don't buy with false expectations
Anyway, everyone should put a marketing person hat on every once in a while. Thinking about why stuff is done like they are becomes lot easier and clearer when looking from the business side. I'm not professional in marketing or business though, straighten me up if you are and know the motives better
Thinking like sales person maximizing profit helps one to become aware consumer, know what one is up against. Save the planet and be happy, don't buy with false expectations
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Yeah the felt is just a gimmick, something done differently than others have. A lot pretty adjectives can be written to the pamphlet from this unnecessary no-feature that rises the manufacturing cost to justify the price a bit better.
Every speaker consist of different trade-offs so for example DIY it is matter to find the suitable one for the expectations. Visual and other feelgood aspects and cost are important as well and might be more important than sound quality to some. I mean, to be happy at the end one has to acknowledge what one is after and then try to actually reach that and not fall into "a marketing trap" with false expectations.
Every speaker consist of different trade-offs so for example DIY it is matter to find the suitable one for the expectations. Visual and other feelgood aspects and cost are important as well and might be more important than sound quality to some. I mean, to be happy at the end one has to acknowledge what one is after and then try to actually reach that and not fall into "a marketing trap" with false expectations.
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Well there is certainly a noise floor of B.S. in the audiophile segment. But there is some inovation there as well.
With current knowledge and tools, it should not be hard for a high end speaker builder to design a low diffraction cabinet. What is challenging is designing a low diffraction cabinet that is also aeshetically pleasing. Some high end designs aim to be visually unobtrusive so they blend in to a variety of decor environments. Others are intended to be a work of art, visually striking. In either case, when someone is shelling out new-car money for a pair of speakers, it should be a given that the sonic performance is high. Most of the time it is, sadly sometimes it is not.
j.
btw, what is that thing in the photo you posted? I assume it plays music somehow... ?
There is one major thing all of your missing. I cannot design speakers. So all of these things you guys are throwing out there do not matter to me. I do not have the opportunity to design my own or it would be done. I was very excited to see extremely high-end speaker kits ready to go. I'm a master woodworker so building facets is easy on baffles. But not having a clue how to design the baffle speaker placement in the first place or what width it should be makes facets useless. Then if I did know what width to make it, then I'd need to know what changes when adding facets.
The beauty of finding those kits, was everything is all ready to go. Until it wasn't.
I haven't mentioned the room much, because they can go in one of three rooms. Whichever room sounds best. I have room for large speakers. Acoustic treatment is easy.
I was naive. I couldn't imagine prolific designers having serious issues to avoid. I didn't have a back up plan, and was left lost.
So I am revamping. I want hifi sound quality, with high sensitivity attributes. I already own a perfect pair of 3012LF Kappalites in 3 cu ft enclosures. I'm buying some 8" midrange drivers from 18Sound, and an AMT and paying someone to help me design, or possibly a Illuminator MTMWW, if something happens to work out to become reality.
At this point, I should have just bought a pair of Forte IVs and had better xovers designed, lol.
The beauty of finding those kits, was everything is all ready to go. Until it wasn't.
I haven't mentioned the room much, because they can go in one of three rooms. Whichever room sounds best. I have room for large speakers. Acoustic treatment is easy.
I was naive. I couldn't imagine prolific designers having serious issues to avoid. I didn't have a back up plan, and was left lost.
So I am revamping. I want hifi sound quality, with high sensitivity attributes. I already own a perfect pair of 3012LF Kappalites in 3 cu ft enclosures. I'm buying some 8" midrange drivers from 18Sound, and an AMT and paying someone to help me design, or possibly a Illuminator MTMWW, if something happens to work out to become reality.
At this point, I should have just bought a pair of Forte IVs and had better xovers designed, lol.
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Here is one of the reasons why I am less concerned about the rooms Acoustics as it relates to these speakers. I own a 40-foot school bus that I use as a workshop, alongside a three car garage. I decided to have music in the workshop, so I actually put a nice system in one end. I threw a pair of quality speakers against the side walls which were seven feet apart, and they were positioned three feet off the buses back wall. I expected nothing. When I got tired and decided to sit down and rest I pulled a chair Into the Dead Center and listened, and was completely blown away to realize the soundstage extended several feet past the bus walls, and about 10 feet deep. Even though the speakers were only three feet from the back wall. It was amazingly good sound, and should have been atrociously bad. I decided to take out the dsp and microphone and measure what in the world was going on. I found out the measurements were really good where I was sitting. This is what I stopped carrying quite so much about the room
Unfortunately, you'll get a lot of debating and such around here of all kinds of things that do not answer your opening questions.
You want the best speaker kit you can acquire for $4000 that has high sensitivity, and where everything has been worked out, so all you'll need to do is build the cabinet.
You want the best speaker kit you can acquire for $4000 that has high sensitivity, and where everything has been worked out, so all you'll need to do is build the cabinet.
That helps. Now define what aspect of sound quality you want to improve. Don’t focus on high sensitivity this or beryllium tweeter that. Those things aren’t important. More important are: desired SPL and bandwidth, directivity characteristic (something like those Kappalites) and maybe other wishes like size or appearance.
A side note: room acoustics is by no means simple. But relatively simple measures can bring huge improvements. Your room really IS a school bus? Like 40ft long, 8 feet wide and 7 feet high?
A side note: room acoustics is by no means simple. But relatively simple measures can bring huge improvements. Your room really IS a school bus? Like 40ft long, 8 feet wide and 7 feet high?
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So why you want at all DIY speakers and so expensive, instead of commercial product? There are tons of good speakers in this price range like Sonus Faber Cremona, used b&w 800 series, Elac, Selah audio, Dal sound and other.small manufacturers. You just have idea about what you want but you do not have means to do it.
In this case you can write to a designer who can do it or purchase product from audiophile shop, there is no other way.
And - what if you will make those expensive speakers and you will not like the sound? You will not get those money back unless your project is well known and very well made. What if you like details and open sound, while your project will have a lot ofass and depth, but bit lacking in clarity? Or the opposite? Clinically clean and you will want to switch it off after one hour?
In this case you can write to a designer who can do it or purchase product from audiophile shop, there is no other way.
And - what if you will make those expensive speakers and you will not like the sound? You will not get those money back unless your project is well known and very well made. What if you like details and open sound, while your project will have a lot ofass and depth, but bit lacking in clarity? Or the opposite? Clinically clean and you will want to switch it off after one hour?
These speakers remind me of "classic cars". They probably perform well but it's about showing off your skills such as they are, and performance will never match a modern professional product. I can't believe the price people pay for such "classic" designs, but perhaps that's one of the bragging points. A carburetor can not compete with direct injection and a passive crossover can not compete with a DSP and tri-amp+. I think at $1K you have hit the limit of diminishing returns. But maybe you can't pay too much for status symbols?
Another thought...
Dynamics are still extremely possible even with lower sensitivity designs- you just need the extra power on tap to make them do it.
I'll never forget going from a 100W/ch receiver to the Crown amps. It is unreal how much line you can feed and still not clip out the amps.
Later,
Wolf
Dynamics are still extremely possible even with lower sensitivity designs- you just need the extra power on tap to make them do it.
I'll never forget going from a 100W/ch receiver to the Crown amps. It is unreal how much line you can feed and still not clip out the amps.
Later,
Wolf