VituixCAD is the best diy crossover simulator. Google will locate the free download plus instruction manuals and many crossover examples, including designs discussed in several diy forums you might want to copy.
VituixCAD features
Measure and CAD your listening room with options for listener and speaker placements.
VituixCAD features
Measure and CAD your listening room with options for listener and speaker placements.
Order a kit by one of the experience designers, such as Dennis Murphy, Paul Carmondy, the late Jeff Bagby, or any of the other well known names.
Go to the web sites for Meniscus Audio, Madisound, Parts Express, or diysoundgroup and you will find dozens of well designed kits with a wide variety of types, sizes, and prices.
Without comparable experience, test equipment, software, and knowledge, you have a very small chance of achieving anything even close to these in sound quality.
"Without comparable experience, test equipment, software, and knowledge, you have a very small chance of achieving anything even close to these in sound quality - the OP's question was how to gain knowledge, this sort of negativity is not helpful. "Order a kit" - no, if you have the capacity to think, do it yourself and learn
If you have a windows PC, and can run simulation software, see this thread: Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
I don't, & am not going to. I'm using equations from a paper book, David B. Weems Designing, Building, and Testing your Own Speaker System
that I can calculate in my head or with calculator function of linux op system. Picked it up for $12 on ebay.
I'll test the theory with microphones I bought from farnell(newark), in my living room. Measuring voltage developed on microphone tunes the room as well as the driver/enclosure set, but if you're not planning to move, what is wrong with that?
If you wanted non-echoic response curves, do the measuring outside in the yard.
I don't, & am not going to. I'm using equations from a paper book, David B. Weems Designing, Building, and Testing your Own Speaker System
that I can calculate in my head or with calculator function of linux op system. Picked it up for $12 on ebay.
I'll test the theory with microphones I bought from farnell(newark), in my living room. Measuring voltage developed on microphone tunes the room as well as the driver/enclosure set, but if you're not planning to move, what is wrong with that?
If you wanted non-echoic response curves, do the measuring outside in the yard.
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Thanks,
This is all good advice, maybe I was too vague in my intial post.
I am not trying to design my own cross over, I am in need of understaning the functional
design of cross overs. What componenets in the circuits contribute to what specific sonic characteristics? Where is a good resource to gain knowledge of the specific boards, caps, inductors, resistors, etc?
How do i ground?
I want to build a design that I allready have, but would like to know how to begin and what it is that I am doing. Rather than just blindly assemlbe something I don't understand.
Thank you all for your input.
Joe
This is all good advice, maybe I was too vague in my intial post.
I am not trying to design my own cross over, I am in need of understaning the functional
design of cross overs. What componenets in the circuits contribute to what specific sonic characteristics? Where is a good resource to gain knowledge of the specific boards, caps, inductors, resistors, etc?
How do i ground?
I want to build a design that I allready have, but would like to know how to begin and what it is that I am doing. Rather than just blindly assemlbe something I don't understand.
Thank you all for your input.
Joe
Let's start with capacitor types: Best audiophile capacitors for crossover design | Audio Judgement
Then inductor types: Audio grade inductors - Types used in speaker crossovers
Resistors are discussed here: The Loudspeaker Crossover Part II: The Brains of your System | Audioholics
Crossover basics: Passive crossover network explanation | Audio Judgement
Crossover schematics: Passive crossover schematic - most types | Audio Judgement
This is what Joe said in his initial post:
"I am completely inexperienced in building cross overs.
I have a need to build speakers."
If you interpret that to mean, as I did, that his need is now and not sometime in the distant future, then my advice was very much on point.
Certainly I'm not discouraging anyone from learning as much as possible about crossover design. But to be perfectly realistic it is not an art that is learned without a substantial investment of time.
Joe,
If you still choose to design your own speakers rather than to build an existing kit, then you will need to acquire some additional knowledge as you already have mentioned. While some of the references that have been suggested here might be useful, I suspect from your posts that you need to start at a very elementary level. In that regard I highly recommend the book, Speaker Building 201 by Ray Alden. It is readily available from Madisound for $30.
Read the first five chapters to get a basic understanding of speaker design including alignments and cabinets. Then Chapters 7 and 8 go into 2-way and 3-way crossover designs specifically. This book is an excellent starting place for understanding crossovers as well as all the other aspects of custom speaker design. There are several other books available, but I think this one is the simplest and most basic.
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classicalfan,
I don't plan to design my own cross overs anytime soon. I think building tried and true would be a good start. However, I have begun to take interest in external cross overs with trebble ''boost'' switches, or pots for adjustment.
I will look into your recommendation.
thanks,
Joe
I don't plan to design my own cross overs anytime soon. I think building tried and true would be a good start. However, I have begun to take interest in external cross overs with trebble ''boost'' switches, or pots for adjustment.
I will look into your recommendation.
thanks,
Joe
Well, here is a good place to begin learning about HOW passive crossovers work - they absolutely cannot "boost" anything. The only minor exception is if you can implement a second order network with a high "Q" factor, wherein in the vicinity of its resonance frequency (a narrow frequency band only) there will be a slight increase in the level compared to the passband. But in reality even that is just trading off or moving around some energy, not generating any.
So, lesson #1 for you might be this:
passive loudspeaker crossover networks can only ATTENUATE POWER in order to block it from getting to a branch of the network.
That is exactly how a passive loudspeaker crossover works. It uses the reactive impedance of capacitors and inductors to block power at low or high frequencies, and resistors to provide damping or to shunt power away. That's it in a nutshell, really. The rest is just an application of these principles. The devil is in the details of that part!
Not having Bill Gates tapped into my artery to support his repeated Windows updates, I intend to use a microphone, a fixed gain line level circuit, and an analog VOM to take measurements: With a pencil & paper. Analog VOM can be had for $25. My Simpson 266XLPM cost $200 in 1986. ***** simulators, the ones that ubuntu gives away are garbage.
Mr. Battig should consider the role of resistors in resisting current. Inductors have a frequency dependent blockage of current, modeled by 2*pi*f*L. L in henries, answer in "ohms". So as frequency goes up, impedance (like resistance) increases.
Capacitors block current modeled by 1/(2*pi*f*C) where C is in farads. Answer in ohms. As frequency decreases, impedance (like resistance) increases.
Cannot add L C & R impedances directly, as they are out of phase and add as vectors. See a 2nd year physics book for kirchoff's 3 laws, net analysis of RLC networks, for overall impedance model.
So using resistors & capacitors, we block the frequencies from the drivers that can't efficiently turn them into sound. As woofers can't efficiently produce high frequencies, and the opposite with tweeters. The frequencies blocked off from a driver do not require current from the amp. Thus current is directed by the crossover only where it can efficiently be used.
Affordable inductors tend to be sold in millihenries, thousandths of a henry. Affordable capacitors tend to be sold in microfarads, millionths of a farad. Knowledgeable people don't use iron core inductors for speakers, they distort some. Knowledgeable people don't use polarized electrolytic capacitors for speakers, the back to back ones distort as they cross 0 volts.
Mr. Battig should consider the role of resistors in resisting current. Inductors have a frequency dependent blockage of current, modeled by 2*pi*f*L. L in henries, answer in "ohms". So as frequency goes up, impedance (like resistance) increases.
Capacitors block current modeled by 1/(2*pi*f*C) where C is in farads. Answer in ohms. As frequency decreases, impedance (like resistance) increases.
Cannot add L C & R impedances directly, as they are out of phase and add as vectors. See a 2nd year physics book for kirchoff's 3 laws, net analysis of RLC networks, for overall impedance model.
So using resistors & capacitors, we block the frequencies from the drivers that can't efficiently turn them into sound. As woofers can't efficiently produce high frequencies, and the opposite with tweeters. The frequencies blocked off from a driver do not require current from the amp. Thus current is directed by the crossover only where it can efficiently be used.
Affordable inductors tend to be sold in millihenries, thousandths of a henry. Affordable capacitors tend to be sold in microfarads, millionths of a farad. Knowledgeable people don't use iron core inductors for speakers, they distort some. Knowledgeable people don't use polarized electrolytic capacitors for speakers, the back to back ones distort as they cross 0 volts.
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When designing a passive crossover, with Vituix for example, should you also model into the design the characteristics of the drivers ie. the Le, Re values? Or are these characteristics included when adding the frd/zma files‽ I'm asking because I have some experience in electronics and am therefore aware of how dramatically the inductive and resistive properties of a speaker can alter the crossover performance dramatically. I used to ignore these values until I built some monitors for.my Son. The speakers sounded terrible even after a couple of crossover designs until I decided to redesign the xo again but with the inclusion of the inductive/resistive properties of the driver. What a difference. Suddenly the speakers "SANG". the differenve was night and day. I ask because I'm currently modelling a 3 way speaker with dual mid-range drivers (so 4 drivers total) and if I factor in the speakers inductive/resistive properties the crossover seems almost impossible to design with any kind if flat response. Rhanks!
