To have any chance of a success in designing a super low budget loudspeaker, one has to be very well experienced and full of faith in the positive outcome, and start measuring after the drivers have arrived, treating manufacturer data as propaganda stuff until proven otherwise.
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Not at all. Crossover points are chosen to fit the need for baffle step correction and to avoid cone breakup points and further to protect the drivers and get a flat response and smooth transition between the drivers. Why do you want a 3-way to begin with? It will only introduce complexity and price. If your looking for budget go with a two-way and a kit with drivers and preassembled crossover that fit. Don’t buy anything just yet if you’re on a budget you have a lot of learning a ahead. Maybe you can explain a little more what your looking for. You mention the braun speakers. What do you like about them?
1. In fact, the budget is unlimited but I’d like to try to save money as much as possible since I realise that engineering works shouldn’t invest much money on anything but cost reduction itself with suitable designs.
2. Room is moderate large. It’s a living room - sorry, I’m not free enough to measure it. And usually open the windows and doors when listen to the sound system. Please note that the weather in my country is hot.
3. Most genre of 80s are my favorite; Pop, Euro Pop, Italodisco, Electronic. Example of artists: Diana Ross, Dionne Warwick, Air Supply, ABBA, Rick Astley, Wham!, Sade, Modern Talking, CC Catch, Shakatak, Patti Labelle, etc.
4. Mostly, I use a medium-sized integrated amplifiers i.e. 100Wx2 Sansui (AU-X911DG), 130Wx2 Sansui (AU-D11II), 55Wx2 Nakamichi TA-3 Receiver, 60Wx2 SAE TWO R6 receiver. Yet, I have a few separated components i.e. NAD 2700, Bryston 3B, Harman/Kardon preamp (unsure model), but lesser use than integrated systems since I found it’s easier to avoid characteristics of signal cables.
From the music preference reply, I’d like to add more on reasons that I usually listen in 2.0 channel configuration. I have some subwoofers but I do prefer 2.0 more than 2.1 because of its simpler setting and more friendly usage. All in all, with 2.0 setup + music taste, a 3-way can cover greater spectrum than a 2-way IMHO.
I love their clean bass, not sure if I can thanks to their 200Hz with 24dB/octave woofer’s crossover; midrange crisp; and a detailed high.
I haven’t bought these woofers yet. I’m really hesitating to buy them. I’m not confident that the sound will be good with these woofers since they are designed to be used with infinite baffle application. Also, the cabinet volume issue, if I were to put them in any closed boxes. What is the best volume? Is 3 cubic feet per woofer suitable? Moreover, the crossover network issue, should I employ them as low as possible (being an integrated subwoofer concept) or at transition point between bass and vocal region?
Hands have been lent already.
Please take a minute to read the responses again.
The advice is clear: forget about this project, you got the theory all wrong and you need to read a lot more. Read and comprehend then look for suitable kits for your preferences.
When I look at your answers to my very basic questions it’s obvious you have some sort of cognitive bias going on.
I’ll reply more in detail if it’s still not clear.
I’m trying to save you money here.
I need to ask also what is your age?
First 2.0 vs 2.1 active have nothing to do with 2-way vs 3-way passive. It’s totally unrelated. A 2.1 setup is with an active mono sub. A 3-way is usually stereo passive bass. Difficult to compare really.
Secondly a 3-way with bad drivers and design will never outperform a basic 2-way. A 3-way will increase price and complexity and bigger probability to be a failure of a project, especially when your inexperienced.
Thirdly: the fact that you like the braun speakers just means they selected drivers and design of your preference - maybe you like a lot of speakers. Have you ever compared with others? It doesn’t mean 200hz is a better crossover point for any driver combination. Actually 200hz is strange, i struggle to believe it really. Most 3-ways have the lower part around 400 allowing each driver covering three octaves. I think you suffer from congnitive bias. You like what you got (or what you can get, which is why you are looking for arguments to select that horrible 12” - because it’s cheap and you really want that to be ok).
Hope it helps, it is a hand lent if nothing else
On budget I cannot grasp what you are saying. What’s really your budget? Don’t come up with a moronic answer like the above.
I didn’t ask about your weather or if you have window open. Just give us the m2 please. Go measure it. Use your feet. What do you mean you’re not free? Ok music preference is clear - thanks that will help. No techno rap jazz or classic, mostly easy listening then. Amp ok basic stuff. Btw don’t worry about cable characteristics lol you won’t notice. If you have a pre amp and power amp use it.
Anyhow without more input on room and budget there is little we can do to help. Just don’t buy that 12”. I have a feeling you did already though.
Sorry, your comment is very useful to me. The TL configuration is interesting but I never did it before. I think it might not suit to me as much since I wish to use 12” woofers, thus, the big cabinet size and weight for them. That’s why I’d like to try as simple as possible cabinet construction - a vented or a sealed.
However, there are 2 points that I’d like to ask for your assistance to clarify. Firstly, why did you suggest to tune to ~21 Hz? Secondly, “according to HR isn't that much unless it's really large like its specs dictate for optimal LF gain BW.” Could you help to explain it more in detail, please?
Thank you very much in advance.
Ok, the budget is about USD1,000. I mentioned about windows open because I thought the room size might not be constant if I open the windows. However, the measured room size is 5.52 x 2.62 x 7.62 metre.
I used to compare with others. My dad's B&W Matrix 3 Series 2 is a good choice. But from my music taste, even its twin a/d/s/ M15, I do like Braun more.
I know I'm too young. I'm only 2X years old.
Can you I ask you a question? Where are you from?
So your budget is 1000 and room size 35m2.
Why do you look at a bass driver to 20USD then?
I’d look for something with more sensitivity and power so you have something to work with.
Here is an example: SOVEREIGN 12-500LF
Here’s a mid that probably fit nicely: STUDIO 5FRK
Then find a nice tweeter of your liking.
Crossover 500 and 3000 maybe. Play around with sim. Don’t forget baffle step correction and attenuation.
Hope it helps.
There are also a million other cheap options like Dayton audio etc. but to me 1000 dollars for a 3-way might be short.
Age is just a number. I’ve been looking through some of your previous threads and just realized you have been asking the same questions for almost a decade, it just seems your struggling with learning.
Why do you look at a bass driver to 20USD then?
I’d look for something with more sensitivity and power so you have something to work with.
Here is an example: SOVEREIGN 12-500LF
Here’s a mid that probably fit nicely: STUDIO 5FRK
Then find a nice tweeter of your liking.
Crossover 500 and 3000 maybe. Play around with sim. Don’t forget baffle step correction and attenuation.
Hope it helps.
There are also a million other cheap options like Dayton audio etc. but to me 1000 dollars for a 3-way might be short.
Age is just a number. I’ve been looking through some of your previous threads and just realized you have been asking the same questions for almost a decade, it just seems your struggling with learning.
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I’m reserving some portion for the crossover network parts. If I go with lower than 100 Hz bass filter, it will need about 10 mH inductors and huge caps. The high-pass filters for midrange are another matter.
Midranges and tweeters planned are from car audio. The mids are 6” a/d/s/ AL6, which are relatively large magnet looks. And the tweeters are 1” a/d/s/ AL4, they may be the same model as AL6’s. This is another matter that needs to be reviewed. I’m not sure whether it will be a good or a bad idea to bring car audio to home usage.
I’m sorry but everything here is a bad idea. Using car audio for mid. Wasting money on large coils for 100hz xo in a passive 3-way so you need to buy cheap bass driver (with 84dB...). It seems you just have a bad instinct towards focusing on the wrong aspects of design ideas. Your old threads confirmed the same I’m afraid. You do what you want. You won’t listen anyway it seems. Not sure why you even bother ask for advice when you’re not capable of taking it. Your whole design idea is bad. You can do a lot with 1000 dollars. But you’re the type of person who would waste it on cables.
The mids and tweeters are what I already have, thus, I just plan to use them. I don’t know why using car drivers in home application is a bad idea. Could you help to explain me? One thing I know is it’s 4 Ohms. Another, teach me, please. Also, how can I to achieve 100 Hz x/o without using large coils? Please help to educate me.
A 15 ga 10 mh air coil inductor is $67. An 18 ga is $27.
I just bought a used Rane electronic crossover with a knob that adjusts the sub frequency for $50. So I have to run a 3rd amp channel? I've been picking up used working MMA-1150 for $40 + $30 freight. Thats 150 watts mono amp.
One thing wrong with car drivers is that you don't know the internal resistance & inductance since you didn't buy them. Random components gets random effects. Yeah, you can measure it, but it takes a scope a resistor & a signal generator. Also a mike to plot the frequency response. I don't have a scope or a generator, but I have drivers that have defined measurements.
The second thing wrong with car drivers is the premium ones will withstand high watts, instead of having flat frequency response or low distortion. The whole concept of "hifi" got lost when car systems took over the showrooms. BuzzBuzz thumpthump, that was the sound of "quality". Great sound ran away to the coasts, there is nothing here unless I build it. Oh, I can get pair of Danley SH-50 two states away near Nashville for only $8000 plus $400 in truck rental. ****. they are the size of a refrigerator!
I just bought a used Rane electronic crossover with a knob that adjusts the sub frequency for $50. So I have to run a 3rd amp channel? I've been picking up used working MMA-1150 for $40 + $30 freight. Thats 150 watts mono amp.
One thing wrong with car drivers is that you don't know the internal resistance & inductance since you didn't buy them. Random components gets random effects. Yeah, you can measure it, but it takes a scope a resistor & a signal generator. Also a mike to plot the frequency response. I don't have a scope or a generator, but I have drivers that have defined measurements.
The second thing wrong with car drivers is the premium ones will withstand high watts, instead of having flat frequency response or low distortion. The whole concept of "hifi" got lost when car systems took over the showrooms. BuzzBuzz thumpthump, that was the sound of "quality". Great sound ran away to the coasts, there is nothing here unless I build it. Oh, I can get pair of Danley SH-50 two states away near Nashville for only $8000 plus $400 in truck rental. ****. they are the size of a refrigerator!
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Why do you want it to be 100hz? Why not 500? Then you would have a lot more money for a better bass driver. It makes no sense to decide on the crossover first.
Please show a drawing of your intended design both cabinet and crossover. Please indicate the sensitivity of all your selected drivers and lpads. You might end up with a system sensitivity of 80dB with this bass driver. Meaning you need atleast a 1000 watt amp, maybe 10.000 to have any dynamics and SPL at all in a 35m2 room with open windows and hot weather. I’m just telling you this project is not going well. But if your budget isn’t really 1000 but 40 then sure go ahead. A car mid will not transition good at 100hz to a 12” at home. Your speaker design will be without bass firstly due to the low sensitive 12”. Secondly there will be no midbass as you filtered that away with the 100hz xo. Finally all body will diseased because you take away all the potential of baffle step correction leaving it all to the car mid which will sound thin in this area. And we haven’t even started talking about the treble. Your whole design is a acoustical high pass filter. I’m sorry.
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