Big Sounding Speaker

Hey there!

Looking to build my first DIY soeaker and have been looking at a few kits, such as the solstice, the Statement II's, the Satori SBA 951, and Troels DTQWTs. I do plan on complementing these with subs and I am going to drive them with some IcePower 1200AS amps.

One thing I was wondering is I have noticed in hi-fi shops, like the wilsons and some of the other big speakers really sound big. I am not sure if it is 100% the room or the speakers themselves. One theory I had is maybe it is related to really good off-axis response. I have some Spendor S8e's now and am looking to get a bigger sound that feels more real and more like a live experience with my new build.

Any advice you have would be appreciated.
 
The wilson maxx series 1 seems to have a 12" or 15" driver along with 4 others. $24000 each used seems a bit much. Too many crossovers IMHO.
I was entirely satisfied with a 15" woofer + 2" driven horn in my SP2-XT. Peavey still sells a SP2 +- 3db 54 hz to 17 khz. More like $600 each. Get out and listen to some. Take a piano CD to give is something really difficult to reproduce. something like Beethoven Appassionata Sonata that goes way down. Even a bookshelf size speaker can sound fine on tenor voice + acoustic guitar.
Don't let the store turn the volume up too high for the room. I listened to mine at 1 W most of the time, in a 14' W x 11' T x 33' L room with a lot of damping items. Yes they are rated to 500 W continuous, which is fine for a show in a parking lot.
 
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I am not sure if it is 100% the room or the speakers themselves.

I think speakers with large baffles naturally sound like a big wall, with sub-woofer groups placed at the junction of the floor and baffle. Another psycho-acoustic trick for "perceived big sound" would be to get some controlled reverberation for the mids and highs (500-5k) to increase decay time. A horn speaker does almost all these things.
 
Agreed; reverb does tend to create a 'bigger' sound. For example, listen to John Lennon's Instant Karma, then Whatever Gets You Through the Night. At the same volume, the reverb on the piano and vocal makes for a much fuller sound than the later recording.


Back when I had Windows 98, there was a CD editing/burning program called "Adaptec", which had several settings through which you could edit and change the sound of music files. The 'Concert Hall Reverb' setting could produce a bigger sounding track, which could also sound terrible!


Geoff
 
I completely agree with this statement based on my experience as well. I tried to match the cone diameter of a single big woofer with multiple smaller ones and I didn't experience the same slam and palpability.

Every time I've increased the woofer size of my speakers, the sound seems to get bigger. I built some high efficiency 10" 2-ways with limited low frequency extension, and they still sounded big. Multiple smaller drivers don't have the same affect imo.
 
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Every time I've increased the woofer size of my speakers, the sound seems to get bigger. I built some high efficiency 10" 2-ways with limited low frequency extension, and they still sounded big. Multiple smaller drivers don't have the same affect imo.

I completely agree with this statement based on my experience as well. I tried to match the cone diameter of a single big woofer with multiple smaller ones and I didn't experience the same slam and palpability.


And this is why I never liked, and will never like, those lousy "tower" style speakers that apparently have become so common these days.
They all look the same, they all seem to have 6.5 inch woofers, sometimes several of them, and they just plain suck.


I want to "feel" the air move.
I want to experience some "impact" if the music has it. :yikes:
 
Completely agree. Inspired by Lampizator P17 open baffle I built with 18" woofer and 10" coax. The sound is big. Piano or bass has size and weight to it.
Bass has texture but easy palpable presence. Works for me anyway.
 

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nice looking speaker
its not easy to make big woofers look good
(just look at open baffle threads like manzanita)
well executed
what coax? just curious
Thanks adason
The coax is a really old(70s?) Coral from Japan-10CX-I. Alnico and paper cones. I changed the cap and did an enabl treatment on the cone. It plays from 150Hz up. First order x-over.
 

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I like the sound of a large woofer. I agree with the previous statements about "slam and impact". I am not sure what exactly we are hearing, since a pair of 8's can measure the same as a 12 in terms of frequency response and distortion, and yet the 12 seems to have more "slam and impact". Whatever we are hearing, it is not something that is easily measured.... and sometimes a tower system with multiple small woofers gets it right, so not all of them are bad.

However, I have never liked the sound of a big woofer if it is crossed too high. I have heard several highly respected horn 2-ways with a big woofer (12 or 15) crossed at about 700 Hz to a horn. I could never tell if I liked the horn sound or not, because I was distracted by that honking muddled shouty midrange coming from that big woofer trying to operate 3 times higher than it should.

So by all means, I will take 15 inch woofer, as long as it is crossed at 180 Hz or lower... or a 12 inch as long as it is crossed at 250 Hz or lower...
 
I found out by trying every filter possible on my dsp that having a "largeish" woofer playing playing 70Hz and up to 2-300Hz and a low order filter can give the impression of large sound. The woofer must play well up to 1200-1500Hz. Subs that roll of at 600Hz will not sound good with a low order filter. A 1. order gives a phase change of only 45degrees after the filter and doesn't mess with the timing that higher orders do. What I mean is that higher harmonics isn't screwed up by the phase change. Phase angle is much more important than hobbyist realize. At the moment I use a 1. order highpass on 45Hz. The Seas 10" elements plays flat to 1500Hz even sold as a subwoofer. So having a 10" element playing tones up through the 1000Hz range makes the 6.5" midrange sound much larger than without. And a boost of a few db in the 70-300Hz range gives the impression of large sound.
 
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I have heard several highly respected horn 2-ways with a big woofer (12 or 15) crossed at about 700 Hz to a horn. I could never tell if I liked the horn sound or not, because I was distracted by that honking muddled shouty midrange coming from that big woofer trying to operate 3 times higher than it should.
Examples of making this work well are rare, even with commercial offerings. As you suggest though, the fact it is difficult doesn't mean it can't work.
 
Have you considered active crossover and biamping?
Thats what works for me.
Yes, I expect that would work very well and absolutely required if I had multiple sources.
I wanted to stay with the passive first order filter if possible. Not surprising, the bass rolled off pretty steep below 70Hz and not much at all below 45.
Then I experimented with the parametric equalizer that comes with Moode.
I settled on around 12dB of gain at 35Hz and a fairly narrow bandwidth. I also took down a hump from 100 to 200 where the drivers cross.
It is now pretty flat from 40 to 14k and with roll off down to the bass limit of 34. It will never play the bottom organ pedals, but it has a lot of tuneful bass response in normal music.
It sounds great and avoided a bunch of additional electronics. So I'm calling it good enough for now. :)