Loudspeaker for perfect reproduction of the human voice

Hello. I am starting a DIY BBC monitor style loudspeaker project. The goal of my project is to achieve the best possible reproduction of the human voice. I will design the boxes from the BBC's ideas, luckily the BBC website has a lot of archived documents on this topic. The biggest problem for me is the midwoofer. As far as I know, the BBC used to use a bextrene cone, but no one produces them now. Are there any modern alternatives to BBC midwoofers?
I would not like to buy a Radial driver from Harbeth for this purpose, it is too easy. I have some options for Volt and Audax drivers, but my assumptions are based on theory only:
VOLT BM228.8 8" BASS/MIDRANGE DRIVER
AUDAX HM130Z10
Satori MW16TX-4.
The Scan-Speak drivers I used earlier in another project, and they were not lively and clean enough for a real human voice.
I would be glad if someone who has some thoughts on my topic suggests interesting driver options. It looks like it will be a long way ...:)
 
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The HM10Z (aerogel too) is even better.


The best t oreproduce the voice could be an ESL with a very low cut-off (few) or a full range lower than 12" able to play 100 hz to 7000 hz for most of the situations, wider if you listen to opera singers.


It's true the bextrenes had something about the voice, as a good paper or a good polypro can have as well (Audiotechnology ?). But I have good aluminium mid woofer that perform also more than sota here as far we are talking about voices. It's more I believe a question of the wholde design of the loudspeaker you will design.
 
I believe that all the qualities that make a speaker excellent overall are the same qualities that make a speaker an excellent for human voice. If you are talking about a speaker that is used only for human voice (singing), then you do not need deep bass capability. Baritone singers can reach down to about 100 Hz fundamental, and bass singers can reach down to about 80 hz fundamental.

I use both the Satori MW16TX-4 and the SB 17CAC35 and both do an excellent job with human voice.
 
No offence people, but the best and most lively reproduction of human voice I have heard were from horn loudspeakers. I think it's difficult to beat something like the below. Just my opinion, not to be taken any seriously.

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156223.jpg
 
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I believe that all the qualities that make a speaker excellent overall are the same qualities that make a speaker an excellent for human voice. If you are talking about a speaker that is used only for human voice (singing), then you do not need deep bass capability. Baritone singers can reach down to about 100 Hz fundamental, and bass singers can reach down to about 80 hz fundamental.

I use both the Satori MW16TX-4 and the SB 17CAC35 and both do an excellent job with human voice.


male baritons and tenors are lower than 100 hz both :)
 
The original had a KEF B110 (A6362) woofer and the KEF T27 (A6340) tweeter. Falcon Acoustics claims to make them stil (i don't know how true and close to the original it is).

Some use the Monacor Sph130 or the Peerless 830860 driver in stead of the B110 woofer, just like some use the Seas 27TFFC and Dayton RST28 in stead of the T27 tweeter.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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The bextreme cones used by the BBC were, IMO, coloured by the standards we have now.

Old LS3/5a, BC1 et al (and the big new Harbeths i have heard) have decided box colourations that some find appealing and some do not.

But if you want accurate voice you want a low colouration driver with no XOs 300 to 3000 Hz or so,

My first choice would be Mark Audio Alpair 7ms (or A7.3, P7HD, a MAOP if you can hfind one). You’ll have to EnABL them yourselves.

dave

Note: i belive very low male voices can hit something like 80 Hz.
 
frugal-phile™
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This LS3/5A just got a great review.[/url]

They usually get good reviews. Great reviews actually. My buddy loves the pair i restored for him. I thot they were coloured and boxy.

I sold them new and have lived with a number of pairs. Like the QuUAD 57 a love/hate thing. They do some things well and others not so much.

A solid set of compromises given the tech of the day.

dave
 
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would you cut-off the Alpair you're talking about in the 300-3000 hz range, please ?

In the 2 boxes we use Alpair 7.3eN in, the wider one crosses over at 180 Hz, the narrowere one at 250 Hz. Designed to get away with first order PLLXO, but given the low XO the taller one worked fine with the forth order DSP XO in an HT receiver. Passive on that one is also forth order.

A12pw-MTM-comp.jpg


Ellipsa-1st-veneered.jpg


dave
 
Hello. I am starting a DIY BBC monitor style loudspeaker project. The goal of my project is to achieve the best possible reproduction of the human voice. I will design the boxes from the BBC's ideas, luckily the BBC website has a lot of archived documents on this topic. The biggest problem for me is the midwoofer. As far as I know, the BBC used to use a bextrene cone, but no one produces them now. Are there any modern alternatives to BBC midwoofers?

As Dave has alluded to, the BBC used / helped develop bextrene cones because there wasn't anything better available at the time for their purposes. The original designer of the T27, B110 & B139 has recreated them & they are available from Falcon Falcon B110 T27 B139 Drive Units, KEF B139 B110 T27 replacements -however, by current standards, they are far from state-of-the-art and not the easiest to work with, hence the rather complex filters of many BBC designs; they're around because of the interest in recreating classic designs, most notably the [in]famous LS3/5a. Incidentally, the Stereophile measurements of the Falcon LS3/5a alluded to above are fine inasmuch as that is more-or-less how the original LS3/5a was supposed to measure. It was created for a specific role, in specific environments, not as a general purpose speaker, so it does not have, and would not benefit from, a flat, or any other kind of response.

I would not like to buy a Radial driver from Harbeth for this purpose, it is too easy. I have some options for Volt and Audax drivers, but my assumptions are based on theory only:
VOLT BM228.8 8" BASS/MIDRANGE DRIVER
AUDAX HM130Z10
Satori MW16TX-4.
The Scan-Speak drivers I used earlier in another project, and they were not lively and clean enough for a real human voice.
I would be glad if someone who has some thoughts on my topic suggests interesting driver options. It looks like it will be a long way ...:)

Depends what you call 'easy' -I didn't even know Harbeth sold their drive units to DIYers, nor does that guarantee a given set of results anyway. It's what you do with them that counts. Off the shelf -there are units from Seas and Audiotechnology that come to mind, using mineral-filled (talc) or woven polypropylene cones, which largely replaced bextrene for its superior consistency, reduced resonance issues etc. Those are, as far as I know, about as close conceptually to modern 'off-the-shelf' equivalents to the old BBC / KEF units. LS3/5a excepted, most of the BBC speakers were intended to run a reasonably flat response -the so-called 'BBC dip' (actually Harwood) was very rarely used by the corporation in its own speakers as they were focussed on studio & mobile broadcast monitoring, not home audio, so manipulations suited to the latter were not necessarily appropriate for themselves. By and large, they crossed to tweeters relatively high, around 3KHz, although this was mostly a reflection of the lack of power-handling & LF distortion performance of contemporary HF units.
 
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Thanks P10, I defintly have to try a Mark Audio one day. I remember Oldspeakerguy who I know from some talks to be an enthusiast of jazz live and baroque reccordings to wrote a Markaudio was its most liked driver here, better than a Satori he ranked second position... iirc.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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Oldspeaker guy was thrilled with the P7PHD, the paper cone 4” voiced for the Japanese market. That voicing often does not sit well with many outside of Japan. Their shortcomings would mostly disappear used as a midrange with a full bandpass XO. I would not use it, given the more neutral voicing of the better metal cone drivers — Mark has managed to massage out most of the nasties often assocuiated with metal cone drivers, so don’t let that generalization get in your way.

dave