Hey fam,
Looks like Tom's designs for home are almost here:
Hyperion and Lyra:
Tom Danley – Danley Sound Comes Home
- Ian
Looks like Tom's designs for home are almost here:
Hyperion and Lyra:
Tom Danley – Danley Sound Comes Home
- Ian
Talking out my, er, my thoughts on the new speaker...
Conjecture on the Hyperion. These are just my obviously uninformed opinions on the new product.
Highs, mids: power handling indicates drivers likely as found in the SH50: a 1” compression driver, perhaps the BMS 4550 (similar power specs). The 2 KHz crossover is interesting, this is perhaps 500 Hz higher than prior DSL efforts. He must have really done himself proud getting the mids close enough to allow a 2 KHz x-over
The woofers should cover about 45 Hz to 300 Hz . This is certainly in the usual frequency. This also indicates the mids and highs -- the most critical band for hearing, appear optimized for the home rather than PA, as we’d expect for such a product. The high x-over has been pushed higher, which seems a valid goal. The only thing that could be better would be no crossover at all. Danley is known for his seamless crossovers and I’d expect the Hyperion as good or better than his stadium-blasters. The frequency and phase response is damned impressive.
I'd guess pattern control would be down to 300-400 Hz, pretty good. No idea on directivity of waveguide. People seem to like anything from 60 to 90 degrees.
The only surprise, to me, is that he doesn’t seem to have mated one of his famous tapped horn subwoofers into the Hyperion.
Buy a new luxury car or the Hyperion -- tough choice!��
Conjecture on the Hyperion. These are just my obviously uninformed opinions on the new product.
Highs, mids: power handling indicates drivers likely as found in the SH50: a 1” compression driver, perhaps the BMS 4550 (similar power specs). The 2 KHz crossover is interesting, this is perhaps 500 Hz higher than prior DSL efforts. He must have really done himself proud getting the mids close enough to allow a 2 KHz x-over
The woofers should cover about 45 Hz to 300 Hz . This is certainly in the usual frequency. This also indicates the mids and highs -- the most critical band for hearing, appear optimized for the home rather than PA, as we’d expect for such a product. The high x-over has been pushed higher, which seems a valid goal. The only thing that could be better would be no crossover at all. Danley is known for his seamless crossovers and I’d expect the Hyperion as good or better than his stadium-blasters. The frequency and phase response is damned impressive.
I'd guess pattern control would be down to 300-400 Hz, pretty good. No idea on directivity of waveguide. People seem to like anything from 60 to 90 degrees.
The only surprise, to me, is that he doesn’t seem to have mated one of his famous tapped horn subwoofers into the Hyperion.
Buy a new luxury car or the Hyperion -- tough choice!��
I like them from what I've seen, but I doubt they'll be big sellers, not because of the SQ but audiophiles. Many will have an issue with there being a horn and a lot more with there being onboard amplifiers so they can't mix and match the flavour of the month amp.
I wish him every success with them though.
I wish him every success with them though.
Hyperion - Tom Danley
Tweeter | 1” Polyester / Neodymium / Kapton
Midrange | 5” Treated Paper / Neodymium / Kapton
Woofer | 2x 8” Treated Paper / Neodymium
Subwoofer | 2x 15” Long Excursion
Frequency Response | 14Hz-23.7KHz
Crossover Frequency | 2kHz / 260Hz / 45Hz
Hight | 54.75 in | 139 cm
Horn Center | 45 in | 114 cm
Top Width | 22.5 in | 57 cm
Top Depth | 19.75 in | 50 cm
Base Width |28.25 in | 71.75 cm
Base Depth | 27.56 in | 70 cm
"The Hyperion loudspeaker is designed to produce the highest quality of home theater audio in the industry."
Seems smart because home theater became a bigger deal with COVID and the synergy horn will have lower sound level drop off with distance in the horn's control like the Geddes Summas.
Tweeter | 1” Polyester / Neodymium / Kapton
Midrange | 5” Treated Paper / Neodymium / Kapton
Woofer | 2x 8” Treated Paper / Neodymium
Subwoofer | 2x 15” Long Excursion
Frequency Response | 14Hz-23.7KHz
Crossover Frequency | 2kHz / 260Hz / 45Hz
Hight | 54.75 in | 139 cm
Horn Center | 45 in | 114 cm
Top Width | 22.5 in | 57 cm
Top Depth | 19.75 in | 50 cm
Base Width |28.25 in | 71.75 cm
Base Depth | 27.56 in | 70 cm
"The Hyperion loudspeaker is designed to produce the highest quality of home theater audio in the industry."
Seems smart because home theater became a bigger deal with COVID and the synergy horn will have lower sound level drop off with distance in the horn's control like the Geddes Summas.
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Very exciting.
I doubt I could afford them and have finished my project based on Chris A's Klipsch 401K horn.
It is pretty easy to get a substantially flat phase plot with IIR filters. Especially at one meter. Unfortunately what works at one meter with a large loudspeaker sounds bad at the listening chair so I consider those measurements to be interesting but basically a parlour trick. You make them first to see where you are and then you have to take the room into account.
I think those 8 inches drivers are being asked to do an awful lot going down to 45 Hz. Those cones would have to be asked to move more than I think is good for high quality audio though probably not that much in the average domestic room but still the less cone movement the better the sound.
The amplifiers seem to be wildly over powerful - not that that is a problem unto itself but rarely do such amplifiers sound really good.
I am using low powered soft clipping amplifiers and these things get plenty loud.
I am using four RYTHMIK subs - two under the MEH cabinets and two in the back of the room. Even with two 15 inches woofers (per cabinet) I am not going down as low with the MEH cabinets but mine are closed and not vented. I do not care for the huffing and puffing - maybe someone can eliminate that but I knew I could not.
The reason I am posting is that these speakers are so good I am shocked that they are something I made. and most improtantly to get other audio kooks to give this approach a try whether DIY or DANLEY.
I replaced a fairly evolved edgar style system though the only thing left from edgar was the subwoofer cabinets. All now have been destroyed and put in the dumpster.
I wanted the MEHs to be better and to take up MUCH less room. They do take up much less room and the improvement is so great that to try to exclaim it would likely bring many mentions of Baranek's Law.
No question these speakers REQUIRE PEQ. Do not bother trying to do it with one amplifier.
I am using the CELESTION Axiperiodic driver which is the most neutral and non-resonant compression driver I have ever heard. It does require substantial boost in the high frequencies but I hear nothing up there to concern me. When you look at the RTA you can see the power required up there is greatly less so it is not as if driver or amplifier is being stressed.
I have tried to balance the boost above 7 kHz and the cut below.
Klipsch is using this driver with an additional phase plug to eliminate the need for the boost. I am sure it sounds very good but I wonder if it sounds any better than using the boost in the EQ? I suspect they did this to make it easier to work well with a great number of amplifiers. This much boost with an average amplifier would probably sound funny. I am speculating.
I like the idea of a clear shot from the compression driver instead of that miniature multi sectoral horn addition. But then I am obviously HOPING what I am doing is as good or just slightly worse.
For people who worry about "horn sound" - you must realize that hardly any of the acoustic transformer aspect of horns is used here. Most of it is thrown away by the EQ. These are being used as waveguides and not as "horns" in the classical sense.
It can only be assumed that most of what is objectionable to many people as the "horn sound" is the sound of the acoustic transformation - the gain in sensitivity. Once this is equalized away you get the benefit of the controlled dispersion of the horn and that is a very appealing sound.
Listening to the exquisite EMI recording of Britten's REJOICE IN THE LAMB the voices are so clearly and beautifully delineated it leaves you with nothing less than disbelief that such a thing is possible.
Now I must admit it has taken me six weeks and thousands of sweeps to get to this quality of sound. But through this you get to learn the "mysteries" of how two drivers within a single horn interact. It is not intuitive until you train your intuition to intuit differently.
The MEH horn is not perfect but it is the best we have at the moment and I doubt it will be seriously improved upon within my lifetime.
I doubt I could afford them and have finished my project based on Chris A's Klipsch 401K horn.
It is pretty easy to get a substantially flat phase plot with IIR filters. Especially at one meter. Unfortunately what works at one meter with a large loudspeaker sounds bad at the listening chair so I consider those measurements to be interesting but basically a parlour trick. You make them first to see where you are and then you have to take the room into account.
I think those 8 inches drivers are being asked to do an awful lot going down to 45 Hz. Those cones would have to be asked to move more than I think is good for high quality audio though probably not that much in the average domestic room but still the less cone movement the better the sound.
The amplifiers seem to be wildly over powerful - not that that is a problem unto itself but rarely do such amplifiers sound really good.
I am using low powered soft clipping amplifiers and these things get plenty loud.
I am using four RYTHMIK subs - two under the MEH cabinets and two in the back of the room. Even with two 15 inches woofers (per cabinet) I am not going down as low with the MEH cabinets but mine are closed and not vented. I do not care for the huffing and puffing - maybe someone can eliminate that but I knew I could not.
The reason I am posting is that these speakers are so good I am shocked that they are something I made. and most improtantly to get other audio kooks to give this approach a try whether DIY or DANLEY.
I replaced a fairly evolved edgar style system though the only thing left from edgar was the subwoofer cabinets. All now have been destroyed and put in the dumpster.
I wanted the MEHs to be better and to take up MUCH less room. They do take up much less room and the improvement is so great that to try to exclaim it would likely bring many mentions of Baranek's Law.
No question these speakers REQUIRE PEQ. Do not bother trying to do it with one amplifier.
I am using the CELESTION Axiperiodic driver which is the most neutral and non-resonant compression driver I have ever heard. It does require substantial boost in the high frequencies but I hear nothing up there to concern me. When you look at the RTA you can see the power required up there is greatly less so it is not as if driver or amplifier is being stressed.
I have tried to balance the boost above 7 kHz and the cut below.
Klipsch is using this driver with an additional phase plug to eliminate the need for the boost. I am sure it sounds very good but I wonder if it sounds any better than using the boost in the EQ? I suspect they did this to make it easier to work well with a great number of amplifiers. This much boost with an average amplifier would probably sound funny. I am speculating.
I like the idea of a clear shot from the compression driver instead of that miniature multi sectoral horn addition. But then I am obviously HOPING what I am doing is as good or just slightly worse.
For people who worry about "horn sound" - you must realize that hardly any of the acoustic transformer aspect of horns is used here. Most of it is thrown away by the EQ. These are being used as waveguides and not as "horns" in the classical sense.
It can only be assumed that most of what is objectionable to many people as the "horn sound" is the sound of the acoustic transformation - the gain in sensitivity. Once this is equalized away you get the benefit of the controlled dispersion of the horn and that is a very appealing sound.
Listening to the exquisite EMI recording of Britten's REJOICE IN THE LAMB the voices are so clearly and beautifully delineated it leaves you with nothing less than disbelief that such a thing is possible.
Now I must admit it has taken me six weeks and thousands of sweeps to get to this quality of sound. But through this you get to learn the "mysteries" of how two drivers within a single horn interact. It is not intuitive until you train your intuition to intuit differently.
The MEH horn is not perfect but it is the best we have at the moment and I doubt it will be seriously improved upon within my lifetime.
I'm very happy with my "poor man's Danley" (used Yorkville U15, active EQ). Much of the "horn sound" is explained plausibly by resonances and perhaps Geddes HOMs. Both of these are easily addresed with inexpensive but (in my case) unsightly lining of throat and/or a towel cowl. Other than level matching the drivers at x-over, I'm mostly tune by ear, including delays (band-limited pink noise or short tone burst at x-over). I'd love to dial them in with instrumentation, but I don't have the equipment, the room or the skills.
A MiniDSP can really take a speaker like that to the next level.
For instance, with my Yamahas, the 'stock' curve was voiced to have that 'smiley face' curve that was all the rage in the 70s and 80s. Basically the midrange is recessed, right out of the box.
Using the MiniDSP I changed the curve to match what Harman recommends, and it basically made it sound like a new speaker. Went from sounding "rock and roll" to "hi fi."
I don't think this is possible with all speakers, because if you use the Harman curve on a minimonitor you're going to kill the dynamics. (The Harman curve is 8dB louder at 80Hz than 20khz, so it's a demanding curve for small speakers.) But the Yamaha has dynamics to burn, so it's receptive to EQ, and so is your U15.
Narrower directivity (horizontal and/or vertical) reduces the dropoff over distance by keeping the energy focused. It doesn't cover as large of an area.
I'm confused why I've been asked about this twice now. Do people think I'm saying something I'm not saying.
