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VituixCAD Not Summing Same as XSim or PCD7
VituixCAD Not Summing Same as XSim or PCD7
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Old 5th March 2021, 01:35 AM   #1
G Speakers is offline G Speakers  United States
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Default VituixCAD Not Summing Same as XSim or PCD7

Hello all, I recently installed VituixCAD and it seems really great! Powerful, fast, etc. Except I started by copying a design I was working on in XSim and I noticed the SPL/filter transfer function was very different between the two programs and I can't seem to figure out why. So I typed it into PCD7 and it agrees very closely with XSim. Anyone else experience this? I would love to make Vituix my go-to program, but I gotta figure this out first. See files and screenshots below.

Before you ask, yes, I messed with the offsets, minimum phase, generator settings, none of it comes close to making it match. I've got to be missing a setting in Vituix somewhere. THANKS!
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File Type: zip TC1 docs.zip (354.2 KB, 13 views)
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Old 5th March 2021, 02:14 AM   #2
Dave Bullet is offline Dave Bullet  New Zealand
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VituixCAD allows X/Y/Z offsets for drivers to allow for phase (and potentially rolloff) characteristics. Are you allowing for these? I know XSim can derive phase on the fly - so best you turn this off and import pre-phased data into all?
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Old 5th March 2021, 02:19 AM   #3
G Speakers is offline G Speakers  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Speakers View Post
Before you ask, yes, I messed with the offsets, minimum phase, generator settings, none of it comes close to making it match. I've got to be missing a setting in Vituix somewhere. THANKS!


The virtual mic is at "0" and I don't have any other drivers in there that they would interact with. Also - it's in the filter transfer function which is not effected by offsets.
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Old 5th March 2021, 02:22 AM   #4
G Speakers is offline G Speakers  United States
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Also, this is my first time doing a full design on XSim. Is there a way to see driver phase? I don't like having to check phase interaction with SPL and polarity flipping, but I can't seem to get a graph to show it! Thanks.
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Old 5th March 2021, 02:28 AM   #5
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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VituixCAD Not Summing Same as XSim or PCD7
You can make it look like this.
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Old 5th March 2021, 10:27 AM   #6
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Hi,

I may be wrong, but the signal source in VituixCAD seems to have a high output impedance of 9 ohms!
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Old 5th March 2021, 11:34 AM   #7
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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VituixCAD Not Summing Same as XSim or PCD7
I was seeing this recently, I was tearing my hair out and couldn't work out why, until it was pointed out to me that the driver was inverted in vituix cad, compared to xsim and speakerworkshop.

It was a third order butterworth so the difference between inverted and non-inverted was not pronounced, and I thought it was the software.

I never got exact matches between the three packages, but once that was sorted they were much closer.

Tony.
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Old 5th March 2021, 11:37 AM   #8
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Generator's output impedance should be 0.01 ohm (in all programs) and drivers' X,Y,Z=0,0,0 mm and R,T=0,0 deg to be compatible with XSim and PCD. Drivers' response data is located at the origin (0,0,0 mm) of the speaker with programs without mechanical geometry calculation (such as XSim and PCD).

Last edited by kimmosto; 5th March 2021 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 5th March 2021, 11:44 AM   #9
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
I never got exact matches between the three packages, but once that was sorted they were much closer.
Typical error is 0.001 dB with matrix solver so typical error source is user.
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Old 5th March 2021, 12:52 PM   #10
hifijim is offline hifijim  United States
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Quote:
Typical error is 0.001 dB with matrix solver so typical error source is user.
this is my experience. I was able to get a close enough match between XSim and VituixCad2 that the two final FRD curves laid on top of each other. However, to get that close, I had to make certain that both programs were using the same insertion loss values for all capacitors and inductors. In other words, a 2 mH inductor in VituixCad might have a DC resistance of 0.28 Ohm, while in XSim, it might be 0.31 Ohm.

There are a lot of little details that all make a small difference. If you want an exact match, all those little details need to be worked out.
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