In need of warmth

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Hi,

I have my active speaker system. Which sounds exceptionally good. Though, with good recorded, non offensive music. The system is also extremely unforgiving. Any rock more aggressive than Alice In Chains - Unplugged with distorted guitars and other screaming and harsch chracteristics is unlistenable.

I know that no matter how warm you make it, a resolving, low distortion system will always make poorly recorded music sound bad. But I at least want to be able to listen to it without my ears bleeding.

The system is already guite on the warm side in terms of bass response, I like that. But I just can't get rid of that punishing harshness in the mid/high frequencies. I've tried rolling of the treble with a few dB, and a 2 dB dip between 1 and 2 kHz (BBC dip) but it doesn't cut it. In fact, There's not that big of an audible difference.

Does anyone know how to effectively make the system more forgiving?
 
Might be obvious but you can measure if there is some resonance and adjust crossover to take it out. Otherwise it could be distortion. Have you tried a higher crossover point and steeper slope to see if affects the sound? Is it on listening axis only or everywhere in the room? If only listening axis, rotate the speaker. Anyway, measurements should tell you what to do. Tuning a speaker is iterative process at least for me. Swapping drivers could help until the same issue happens again. Have fun! :)
 
Last edited:
I'm gonna try the dip to between 2 and 5 kHz. I'll measure to see what happens.

It's certainly not distortion as the mid is a SB-Acoustics Satori MR16P-4 and the tweeter is a BliesMa T34B-4 :D . Though the tweeter certainly doesn't distort, the beryllium doesn't help with forgiveness.

I haven't had the BliesMa for very long so far. So maybe the frequency reponse changed as it burned it. I'll remeasure everything.
 
I'd like to try steeper slope, I've read this has some advantages. Though I don't really get how to do that in the DSP. I can change the "Q" of the filter but it doesn't seem to get steeper, it just gets a "knee". Though I will measure it and see what the acoustic response does.
 

Attachments

  • Schermopname (36).png
    Schermopname (36).png
    308.5 KB · Views: 724
  • Schermopname (37).png
    Schermopname (37).png
    313.9 KB · Views: 712
Crossover simulation with full off-axis measurements would help. It's quite expected that too flat axial response with brick box and steep lopes produce bad sound with 7"+34mm drivers in 2-way, but no one knows what should do without proper measurement and design methods.
 
Well I'll be honest with you. I was quite lazy when doing measurments. I wasn't really trying to do them anechoicly. Now I did. With a blanked around the speaker. As a sort anechoic tunnel to the microphone.

This is the frequency rsponse that came out :scared: . Though I removed the previous DSP corrections. But I looked similair
 

Attachments

  • anech meeting 1.jpg
    anech meeting 1.jpg
    58.7 KB · Views: 438
Yep. That response would bleed anybody's ears.

Best indoor measurement technique i know, is speaker laying sideways on floor, tilted perpendicularly towards mic on floor.
Try at 1m and play with distance a little until measurements make sense ... look coherent.

Reasonably close 2nd best is in a closet full of clothes...when speaker fits..
 
Last edited:
+10

I would add.....With such a linear drivers, I would start with LR2 at 2kHz, normaly it results in good off axis responses and power response. With LR4 and that wide dispersion of Bliesma you end up with too much energy ~2-7kHz, when system FR is tuned flat.
For proper analysis you need to measure off axis responses of all drivers and model crossover. There are no shortcuts to achieve great sounding system.


Crossover simulation with full off-axis measurements would help. It's quite expected that too flat axial response with brick box and steep lopes produce bad sound with 7"+34mm drivers in 2-way, but no one knows what should do without proper measurement and design methods.
 
Yeah, proper measurements and then tweaking starts :) With DSP you can get the FR pretty smooth just use as many peak filters as needed. When tweaking by ear I've found these things usable: listen in mono with one speaker. If bass feels heavy, mute the bass so its easier to tweak mid/high, 2way speaker you could just highpass the bass. Compare balanse to something, for example headphones. After good FR balance is met, try another crossover topology/approach if the sound feels constrained. I found S. harsch xo worked better than some other slopes in this regard, what ever the reason might be it is much more lively sound in my application. Still not perfect after million DSP presets. Remember to have fun! :)
 
Last edited:
Yeah the crossover definitely needs work with those speakers. But that being said that last bit of ear piercing hardness went away, for me at least, with waveguides. This wasn't because of a hole in the off axis power response, of the naked domes either. I always crossed those low enough for that not to be an issue.
 
Yep. That response would bleed anybody's ears.

+1.

Getting a mic and taking actual measurements: so hot right now.

The measurements here show a clear problem, and a clear path forward.

Without measurements, you get waffling about which cables and which room treatments sound "warm" or "dry", and how you really need to try a valve amplifier carved from unicorn bone.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.