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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 20th January 2021, 07:44 PM   #11
cracked case is offline cracked case  England
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Get a nad 3020a, audiolab q dac and don't try to hard to kill box vibration. Kill that rooster!
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:52 PM   #12
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Well I'll be honest with you. I was quite lazy when doing measurments. I wasn't really trying to do them anechoicly. Now I did. With a blanked around the speaker. As a sort anechoic tunnel to the microphone.

This is the frequency rsponse that came out . Though I removed the previous DSP corrections. But I looked similair
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Old 20th January 2021, 07:56 PM   #13
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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This is the response with the DSP in action. I'm gonna improve the entire spectrum. Though the main problem is that spike from 4,5 to 7 kHz.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:07 PM   #14
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Yep. That response would bleed anybody's ears.

Best indoor measurement technique i know, is speaker laying sideways on floor, tilted perpendicularly towards mic on floor.
Try at 1m and play with distance a little until measurements make sense ... look coherent.

Reasonably close 2nd best is in a closet full of clothes...when speaker fits..

Last edited by mark100; 20th January 2021 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:12 PM   #15
Pida is offline Pida  Czech Republic
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+10

I would add.....With such a linear drivers, I would start with LR2 at 2kHz, normaly it results in good off axis responses and power response. With LR4 and that wide dispersion of Bliesma you end up with too much energy ~2-7kHz, when system FR is tuned flat.
For proper analysis you need to measure off axis responses of all drivers and model crossover. There are no shortcuts to achieve great sounding system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmosto View Post
Crossover simulation with full off-axis measurements would help. It's quite expected that too flat axial response with brick box and steep lopes produce bad sound with 7"+34mm drivers in 2-way, but no one knows what should do without proper measurement and design methods.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:57 PM   #16
tmuikku is offline tmuikku  Finland
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Yeah, proper measurements and then tweaking starts With DSP you can get the FR pretty smooth just use as many peak filters as needed. When tweaking by ear I've found these things usable: listen in mono with one speaker. If bass feels heavy, mute the bass so its easier to tweak mid/high, 2way speaker you could just highpass the bass. Compare balanse to something, for example headphones. After good FR balance is met, try another crossover topology/approach if the sound feels constrained. I found S. harsch xo worked better than some other slopes in this regard, what ever the reason might be it is much more lively sound in my application. Still not perfect after million DSP presets. Remember to have fun!

Last edited by tmuikku; 20th January 2021 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 20th January 2021, 08:58 PM   #17
YSDR is offline YSDR  Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3wayaddict View Post
Well I'll be honest with you. I was quite lazy when doing measurments. I wasn't really trying to do them anechoicly. Now I did. With a blanked around the speaker. As a sort anechoic tunnel to the microphone.
You don't need anechoic chamber to do reflectiion-free measurements in the mid-high frequency area. Just use the time-gating technique.
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Old 20th January 2021, 09:36 PM   #18
infillion is offline infillion
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Could there be any quick wins on the acoustic treatment of the room? From the videos it seemed there is plenty of reflective surfaces in a not-very-large room.
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Old 20th January 2021, 09:40 PM   #19
5th element is offline 5th element  United Kingdom
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Yeah the crossover definitely needs work with those speakers. But that being said that last bit of ear piercing hardness went away, for me at least, with waveguides. This wasn't because of a hole in the off axis power response, of the naked domes either. I always crossed those low enough for that not to be an issue.
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Old 20th January 2021, 10:46 PM   #20
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
Yep. That response would bleed anybody's ears.
+1.

Getting a mic and taking actual measurements: so hot right now.

The measurements here show a clear problem, and a clear path forward.

Without measurements, you get waffling about which cables and which room treatments sound "warm" or "dry", and how you really need to try a valve amplifier carved from unicorn bone.
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