Satori MR 16 is the one to try to beat

Long ago I read that in order to get a 10% increase in performance or qualitative value, the cost must double. I have found this to be true in many areas of life, from cars, to fishing equipment, to whiskey, to woodworking tools, to dinner at restaurants, and yes, loudpeaker drivers.

Given the 6" textreme driver is about 60% more than the 6" papyrus driver, it is probably somewhat better, but I do not expect it to be better by a "very large margin"...
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2019
Yep, it is what it is. I have had many high performance cars, cameras, women, whiskey, etc...twice??? maybe...try 10 times!!! I was at the London Hilton during a Royal wedding; I had the most beautiful woman on the planet approach me in the elevator (the "lift")...she asked me if I needed company....WOW...another story for another time!!!! I think my best 2-way was a 5 inch Accuton (with the ears cut outs) and a Raven R2 ribbon...WOW...hard to beat for sure...come on TexTreme 5 inch...go go go...
 
Four of the Satori drivers have a 94dB/2.83V/M sensitivity with a 120W power handling. These four drivers have a P-P Linear displacement 295cm^3.

The B&C 8NDL51 also has a 94dB/2.83V/M sensitivity and a 400W power handling. Its P-P linear displacement is 154cm^3.

So the B&C has a 5.2dB advantage in maximum output in the midrange. The Satori Mids have a 5.6dB displacement advantage at the low end, allowing more crossover flexibility. The Satori Mids will hit almost 115dB at 1M minus thermal compression. This is stupid loud in a domestic environment and hardly a useful argument for using the B&C.

My experience with the Satori midwoofers is they will go louder in a domestic environment than I need them to when used in a three way system in pairs or singles.

For domestic use I would rather the more attractive aesthetic of the Satori driver and the smaller CTC spacing it would afford.

I have used the 8NDL51 drivers in the past in a Unity horn with the BMS 4550. That build gets beaten up with over 1KW per box in a nightclub and sounds fantastic. There's no chance I would want that at home though.
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2019
Well, I was specifically talking about the MR16 as a broadband mid, I also had the MW16 but sold them. I am hoping the TexTreme MW13 will work as a broad band mid since we learned that SB will not introduce a MR13 mid any time soon. It has a rather small Sd for that diameter I believe so I hope it can easily reach 4 KHz. And, as I said earlier; if I'm not satisfied with the range; I could try it in a small 2-way for office use, etc. What I like about the MR16 is goes low and high both and has really good resolution and detail for a driver that size, almost like a purpose built full range driver but with more "guts" (plenty loud enough for my listening space anyway). I also use a MA Pluvia 7PHD in the same band because it has transients that rival a very well designed tweeter so it gives the upper mids more realism than the MR16 by itself.
 
My two cents......
I was debating between the Satori MR16PNW-4 and Morel TSCM 634 for my midrange so I decided to send a note to Jeff Bagby (RIP). He had so much more experience than me and was always generous with his time - he told me could not go wrong with the Satori and the MR16 was on sale for $100 at Madisound. He was right, I could not be happier. I paired it with the ESS Heil AMT and the system exceeds my expectations. My low end set of drivers is the Eminence Kappalite 3012LF in U-frame. Wow! The system kicks butt.

Of course like a typical DIYer I am eyeing the SB Acoustics textreme model but have not made a move yet.
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2019
The MR16P-4 6.5” Satori Midrange from SB Acoustics | audioXpress

I actually tried the Morel first; I think for $400 each they should have been much better. The MR16 is not the best driver on the planet for sure but when you factor in the extremely good performance and then the price; I still think it is the one to beat. The MR16 sounds way better than the Morel above which is a shame really. Some are saying the TexTreme may not be all that much better but others are saying it is magic. At first; I had the MR16 LP 2nd order, no Zobel. I have since moved to a 1st order; I am using a 14 AWG equivalent Goertz flat foil inductor and it does very well. I said this elsewhere but I think the Goertz flat foil inductors sound better than any other inductor I have tried, regardless of coil design style or price.
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2019
AND, for an experiment; I am soon getting the SB13PFC. It is a special paper cone; I wander if it is Papyrus? Some say it is, others...maybe??? The idea is to compare the budget 5 inch to the Satori 6 inch mid; side by side. I have a new project idea for the 13PFC but how can I pass up comparing it to the MR16 first? Now that some reports are coming in on the TexTreme MW16, maybe it is a lot of hype and wishful thinking and maybe it is just slightly better than Papyrus? If so; certainly NOT worth the high price for just a small increase in performance...time will tell...
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2019
The Goertz flat foil inductors seem to have very low DCR compared to other brands even with the same equivalent wire gauge. That is certainly ONE reason; the bass seems more defined even though we are using these in series with a mid or mid/bass for a higher frequency low pass. The mids and highs ALSO seem to be better defined; more resolution and detail. I have some Hepa-Litz 12 gauge and standard 14 gauge coils. In my A/B listening tests, the flat foils almost always give a more realistic presentation. Even when comparing the Goertz to another brand of the same inductance and equivalent inductance. Yes, many people try to argue there is no difference in sound "quality" between different inductors, capacitors and even resistors. There is a difference for sure; sometimes it is only a slight improvement; sometimes it is very obviously a great improvement. Subjective? Maybe but I am fully retired and have all day to experiment. I am a retired Engineer, Technician and former Musician so I do understand all the math and science; I also trust my trained musician's hearing...Like I have said; these discussions and arguments will most likely go on until the end of time...
 
I agree. I also use the MR16P togehter with two WO24P's and used to have the TW29DN. Lovely drivers. Talking about the MR16P, I love it's midrange. Rich and the vocals are so good. So real and such body. Some staff of my local high end dealer actually prefer the vocals of my speakers over that of the €115k Kroma Elektra's. The bass from the woofers, sitting in a sealed cabinet, is also extremely good.
Last week I upgraded the tweeter to the BliesMa T34B-4. Another league in detail retrieval, distortion and spaciousness. Though I was already very impressed with the TW29DN, one of the very best soft domes on the market.
 

Attachments

  • 20200707_152941 (2).jpg
    20200707_152941 (2).jpg
    776.3 KB · Views: 436
  • 20210115_185717.jpg
    20210115_185717.jpg
    819.7 KB · Views: 434