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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Satori MR 16 is the one to try to beat
Satori MR 16 is the one to try to beat
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Old 21st January 2021, 10:06 AM   #31
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Satori MR 16 is the one to try to beat
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldspkrguy View Post
Well, I meant added DCR affects the Qt.
This only means there is a difference in response, yes?
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Old 21st January 2021, 10:16 AM   #32
42476 is offline 42476
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Qt would be affected, the response would change due to this. I am talking about noticeable differences in resolution, detail, etc.; not just bass improvements but the entire bandwidth. Again, This may not be measurable with any home based method.
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Old 21st January 2021, 10:28 AM   #33
celef is offline celef
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thank you oldspkrguy, have you compared to a well constructed laminated core inductor for even lower series resistance?

i am sure you know how fooled one can be by comparing parts or drivers at different sound levels and therefor it is vital that output levels are matched. i have made that mistake many times and made very wrong conclusions
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Old 21st January 2021, 12:51 PM   #34
42476 is offline 42476
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Celef, I used well made clip leads so I can very quickly do an A/B comparison. For values under 1 mH, I don't think that many cored type inductors are available so I have never compared those for mid or mid bass use. I use Jantzen P-Core or C-Coil (toroid) for higher inductance values (for woofers, etc) when I need the lowest DCR. The P-Core has some values that use 13 AWG wire, the C-Coil has 14 AWG wire. So, when I am doing an A/B comparison between two inductors, I keep them well separated physically so they don't have any mutual inductive interference; I take the clip lead and touch the inductor lead of one coil then the next, back and forth on very familiar, high quality recordings. Then I clip the inductor of choice on for longer critical listening tests. Finally, I used wire twist on connectors (like the type electricians use for house wiring) for final testing. Once I am satisfied; I solder everything up. Hope this helps.
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Old 21st January 2021, 03:00 PM   #35
42476 is offline 42476
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I tried the 13PFC fullrange on day one to get an idea of where I might like to try X/O. Right now, I have a calculated 1st order HP of -3 dB at about 135 Hz. I am basing this on 7 Ohms according to the impedance curve. It takes away the lower bass octaves so the excursion isn't as bad. I have a small inductor on the high end for LP; this just takes off the very top end just enough to smooth out the peaking seen on the OEM FR plot. I think you could cross this little guy almost anywhere depending on your max SPL and power requirements; even running full range; it does quite well considering what we are working with here.
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Old 21st January 2021, 04:20 PM   #36
42476 is offline 42476
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13PFC breaking in nicely; if you want an inexpensive 5 inch mid-bass; this just might be the best choice out there. The resolution and detail are improving quite a bit actually, much to my surprise; this thing sounds much more expensive than it's budget price for sure! It's never going to equal a Satori but we wouldn't really expect to; it has equal or better resolution and detail to my ears anyway than the 6 inch CAC I had and sold.
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Old 21st January 2021, 07:48 PM   #37
celef is offline celef
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check these out:

SB ACOUSTICS SB13PFC25-8 (Mid-woofer 5", 8 Ohm, 80 Wmax)

SB ACOUSTICS SB13PFC25-4 (Mid-woofer 5", 4 Ohm, 80 Wmax)
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Old 21st January 2021, 08:40 PM   #38
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I have the newer version with the round basket. It is SB13PFCR25-8. It seems to have a smoother top end than the original version with the odd shaped frame. I got these for about $23 US each and some nice silk dome Vifa tweeters on sale at $24 US each.

DX25BG60-04 - Tymphany

These make a good match with each other. I would say any design with these SB13PFC is probably quite popular because of the high performance to cost ratio.

Back to Satori; does anyone have the MR13 Papyrus mids in use in a current design? What I have compared is that the MR16 has a flatter overall FR than the MR13. I would be curious what X/O frequency and slopes people are using with the MR13P and what tweeters they have tried as a match.

The more I read on the new TexTreme MW16 comments; the more inclined I am to now wait for a TexTreme mid (MR13TX) instead of trying the MW13 first. It seems some say the increase in performance going from Papyrus to TexTreme is not a huge leap at all like many of us had hoped for. It is still early on though so we will see as more have tried and tested and evaluated them...
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Old 27th January 2021, 11:48 AM   #39
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
1) The B&C 8NDL51 is not a midrange driver. If that's what your into, check out the 8PE21. It has less xmax and higher efficiency.

2) If you think sound quality and loudness are mutually exclusive, you should check out some of the speakers from JBL, Danley, Bang and Olufsen, etc. To quote Greg Timbers:

An Interview with Greg Timbers, Past Designer/Engineer for JBL

"I believe that solid Dynamic behavior is most important to get lifelike sound. Dynamics require high efficiency since transducers are pitiful in energy conversion. I also believe that sound staging is extremely important. I think natural midrange and bass presentation precedes the treble range. Of course all things have to be balanced!"
Bang & Olufsen, you mean the design furniture? Hahaha . Those Danley also don't really look like they're made to sound good in a home environment either. But still, I think we (me at least) couldn't care less about loudness as long as it can reach any normal listening volume and a little more. Basically anything can do that. And those pro woofers/mid woofers don't have the specs and measurments to sound good in audiophile terms.
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Old 27th January 2021, 01:05 PM   #40
Draki is offline Draki  Macedonia
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^ Sure, this is how a good audiophile speaker should be like:
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