You have made all kinds of speakers, and have your own subjective feeling about them, how you hear them, how they place you in the "world of music." Do you hear them as omnidirectional, or just have to sit in the sweet spot area? I am interested in what your ears perceive, not what the mikes/instruments hear.
I have my thoughts in immersing in the world of music, within my normal living room, but before stating them, I'd like to hear of your subjective feelings. Thanks.
I have my thoughts in immersing in the world of music, within my normal living room, but before stating them, I'd like to hear of your subjective feelings. Thanks.
I like having speakers all around (NOT necessarily "true surround") when I have a room size that can support it. The Recording Engineers go to a lot of trouble though so that a stereo pair of speakers can re-create a 3-D effect. I was in several bands, in HS, I sat in the middle so I heard all of the instruments all around me. When I had a larger room, I did play with multiple sets of speakers all around the room to try to mimic this "in the middle" effect. Many people here will probably say that they do NOT like this idea though.
Now; I have multiple drivers in multiple enclosures but have them arranged as a typical stereo "pair". I have a narrow sweet spot but I am happy with the results. Are you wanting a large listening window, narrow sweet spot or some other effect?
Some designs are purposely wider dispersion, there are open baffle, many other ways to get a wider listening window.
Can you give us some more clues about your "goals" here?
Now; I have multiple drivers in multiple enclosures but have them arranged as a typical stereo "pair". I have a narrow sweet spot but I am happy with the results. Are you wanting a large listening window, narrow sweet spot or some other effect?
Some designs are purposely wider dispersion, there are open baffle, many other ways to get a wider listening window.
Can you give us some more clues about your "goals" here?
My favorite speakers are the ones that still sound good from the living room all the way to the basement when pouring some more wine and further all the way to the bathroom taking a **** before coming back the living room continue the peace of art without any pause, I hate to sit still in the center of the speakers and prefer to walk around while enjoying music loud and smooth.
I like your idea of "sitting in the middle" feeling. I won't be able to achieve that in my living room, for there is furniture. But, I have the front wall without tall furniture, only low commodes, 3m long, so I can place speakers on top of it at the ends, or on side of the commodes. The wall behind it, and the sides are free of any other furniture. There's a TV in the middle, and shelf over it, about 1.6m above the commodes. I sit ~ 2.4m away from the commodes, at my desk. I don't sit in one place. The speakers are more or less should be at ear level, and at present they are.
Open baffles won't work, for they are too big, somewhat ugly. Whatever I think of, would have to be aesthetic, match the scenery, for the wife to agree.
I want the speakers to vanish as the source of sound. I also don't want massive boxes or plumber's tubes with flying saucers, inverted cones or such like. I want the speakers to be unobtrusive. It is not just a wish, I am working on it. I am testing the matter with my pair of ears and wife's. Her hearing is much better than mine and has music school background. I am playing with lot of enclosures, made with cardboard. I am not concerned about the enclosure resonating until I find the solution.
By the way, I didn't know of Siegfried Linkwitz, until xrk971 gave me the link. I went there and found a nice read. Certain ideas are cooking in my mind.
No, I am not going to make an LX Mini, or any of Linkwitz stuff.
Last edited:
My listening room is also the living room and I have a wife and two young children to keep happy. The room is only 4M x 4.2M . The above constraints limit what can be done. I don't want a dedicated listening room as I want to spend as much time with my family as I can, going about normal life not shutting myself away in another room. Music for me is a social thing.
I love omni and semi omni because I want everyone to enjoy the music wherever they are in the room, seated, stood or sat on the floor. Also I require my speakers to be hard up against the wall. Imaging is not important to me so a wall of sound presentation is OK as long as it is detailed with low distortion and as dynamic as possible.
I ended up designing a bipole semi omni with several 5.25 " mid bass firing up and down and four dome tweeters all on different panels. No bsc as the bipolar design and being against the wall takes care of that. It is very detailed and low distortion because of the multiple drivers in use. All the midbass are run full range (doped) and just one cap on the tweeters means there is plenty of life in the music.
Job done. No more speaker building for me.
I love omni and semi omni because I want everyone to enjoy the music wherever they are in the room, seated, stood or sat on the floor. Also I require my speakers to be hard up against the wall. Imaging is not important to me so a wall of sound presentation is OK as long as it is detailed with low distortion and as dynamic as possible.
I ended up designing a bipole semi omni with several 5.25 " mid bass firing up and down and four dome tweeters all on different panels. No bsc as the bipolar design and being against the wall takes care of that. It is very detailed and low distortion because of the multiple drivers in use. All the midbass are run full range (doped) and just one cap on the tweeters means there is plenty of life in the music.
Job done. No more speaker building for me.
Lovely!
Can you show us some photos?
I have a pretty good idea, what kind of enclosure I am going to build, but it will have to wait until late spring, for it is quite cold outside now, and the garden shed is not heated. For the moment, I am using a pair of bookshelf speakers to get that result -- the vanishing act. I'll write about it sometime later. Atm, I am getting my friends, relatives and neighbours to give their subjective feeling.
My floorstanding Advent Maestro's are nice, neutral speakers.
However, about 20 years ago, I decided to "add" a touch of ambiance, and installed a cycolac compression horn style tweeter on the back of each speaker enclosure, directly behind the front tweeter.
I voiced the rear tweeter to basically match the front, and it's even switchable if I choose to, by a rear mounted toggle.
So....... the result sounds nice - the rear tweeter bounces just enough "ambiance" off the wall behind it, giving me a nice spacious effect, and some "depth" in the room, without hurting that original Advent sound.
And it's a simple thing to do, without all the horrendous discussions, measurements, and assorted obsessions.
However, about 20 years ago, I decided to "add" a touch of ambiance, and installed a cycolac compression horn style tweeter on the back of each speaker enclosure, directly behind the front tweeter.
I voiced the rear tweeter to basically match the front, and it's even switchable if I choose to, by a rear mounted toggle.
So....... the result sounds nice - the rear tweeter bounces just enough "ambiance" off the wall behind it, giving me a nice spacious effect, and some "depth" in the room, without hurting that original Advent sound.
And it's a simple thing to do, without all the horrendous discussions, measurements, and assorted obsessions.
Have you noticed that practically all mass produced speakers in Europe, Canada and US have flat baffles, either embedded into the box or fixed over it, but all the drivers are in the same plane? Except maybe Kef with few speakers.
But, some well known Asian manufacturers make the baffle 3D with none of the drivers in the same plane on the baffle -- the woofer placed in a protruding tube, the tweeters at planes further than the woofer. Not all speakers, of course, but some very good ones. They are not that expensive, either.
But, some well known Asian manufacturers make the baffle 3D with none of the drivers in the same plane on the baffle -- the woofer placed in a protruding tube, the tweeters at planes further than the woofer. Not all speakers, of course, but some very good ones. They are not that expensive, either.
this seems to be the general opinion but I find it to be the opposite, when I listen closely I want a constant behavior, if I move a bit I do not want the sound to change. when I listen in the farfield I want a more narrow spread to reduce the room's coloring of the reproduction
This is most confusing thing I've read lol
In what country? It is the norm for nearfield monitors to have wide dispersion and for farfield systems to have higher directivity .....or have I lost my mind? I don't know of anyone else but myself and now, apparently, Vacuphile who are seeking to use what, something like a large horn at 1m?....Us combined make 2 people, and I have yet to finish (my build) and analyze this type of experience, at this point I just believe in it, lol.
See?
You know how this added tweeter adds depth to the soundfield.
The reversing switch idea to me, doesn't offer much use, because the rear tweeter's reflections off the wall behind it are the dominating figure.
The "bounce" effect of the rear high frequencies make the walls move back in an attractive way, (that 3D effect) giving the music and voices apparently more room.
The front tweeter gives a point source to the music, keeping things "centered.
I used the rear tweeter reversing switch depending on how far from the wall the speakers were. It is a nice effect; my current listening room is too small and I don't think a rear firing tweeter would do much good but now that we are talking about it; I may give it a try soon just for giggles!
Most of the models I know are within mix and mastering products....I recognize that some products that use (significant) waveguides are sometimes stand out products (mackie824) but most of all the products are aiming towards high dispersion (ie dome tweeter small waveguide maybe)...then again Adams AMT tweeter has a following....
I think I jumped the gun on his comment though...
If hes talking about sitting at the same distance even..."controlling" directivity has no bearing on wide or narrow, it just implies intention.......
I think I jumped the gun on his comment though...
thats kinda vague for me.
These two examples could be the same system one at 1m and one at 2-3m.....
If hes talking about sitting at the same distance even..."controlling" directivity has no bearing on wide or narrow, it just implies intention.......
....see what I did there?
The way I hear speakers is from a point-source phase perspective. To my ears, a speaker either does this, does something like it or does not. I'd prefer a quieter system with limited dynamics, less undistorted SPL and non-ideal frequency response that does this, to one that has those attributes optimized - but doesnt.
That's just me. I'm old and dont like loud music anymore, like I loved it when I was a kid. I cant hear the highs anymore like I used to and parts of favorite recordings I used to hear clearly are literally gone from perception these days. Point-source behavior - as you'd hear something in nature - is about all I have left (besides the bass of course)
If I need to sit within a narrow sweet spot, so be it. I love the panorama of performers and their instruments splayed out before me - "panorama" in this case not being some old folks home ;')
I like heavily EQd OB bass at low-reasonable volume levels. I heard a standup for the first time at 13 (in Disneyland of all places) and I recall how I couldnt believe that acoustic instrument could make that sound - so deep and with such solid cant-miss-it authority, from several meters away. My heavily EQd OB bass at low-reasonable volume levels makes a similar sound from this recorded instrument right in my livingroom. Certainly, on certain recordings that is. Not all.
Yet, I'm still capable of finding myself pumping my fist in the air as Tool sings "Between supposed lovers" - played just a little bit louder than my average listening level!
That's just me. I'm old and dont like loud music anymore, like I loved it when I was a kid. I cant hear the highs anymore like I used to and parts of favorite recordings I used to hear clearly are literally gone from perception these days. Point-source behavior - as you'd hear something in nature - is about all I have left (besides the bass of course)
If I need to sit within a narrow sweet spot, so be it. I love the panorama of performers and their instruments splayed out before me - "panorama" in this case not being some old folks home ;')
I like heavily EQd OB bass at low-reasonable volume levels. I heard a standup for the first time at 13 (in Disneyland of all places) and I recall how I couldnt believe that acoustic instrument could make that sound - so deep and with such solid cant-miss-it authority, from several meters away. My heavily EQd OB bass at low-reasonable volume levels makes a similar sound from this recorded instrument right in my livingroom. Certainly, on certain recordings that is. Not all.
Yet, I'm still capable of finding myself pumping my fist in the air as Tool sings "Between supposed lovers" - played just a little bit louder than my average listening level!
I wasn't really interested in, whether the sweet spot is narrow or not, but having the music fill the room, without feeling that the speakers are there. Atm, I am achieving this somehow now, strangely with Japanese made speakers. My wife, who has better hearing, cannot tell which sound comes from which speaker.
Have you heard your OBs firing up, at ear level or slightly above the ear level? All drivers, woofers, tweeters, etc? Placed horizontally, looking up, in whatever arrangement -- parallel, 90 degrees or at any other angle in the plane towards you? If not, would you try?
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.