Yes i get it
The settings on the dsp will make the sound very adjustable and i can probably make the sound smooth enough with EQ
I first ad the idea of crossing the 15" woofer much higher
Than i understand it will work best up to 300hz
Than i tought maybe i will get a bigger midrange driver, 8" or so
now i am looking around 4 and 5"
You say aluminium, how about titanium and carbon fiber?
Alot to choose from.
sealed or vented
I think it is good if the driver can take som power in case you want to play loud.
That may be why i am looking at more expensive drivers, what do you think?
The settings on the dsp will make the sound very adjustable and i can probably make the sound smooth enough with EQ
I first ad the idea of crossing the 15" woofer much higher
Than i understand it will work best up to 300hz
Than i tought maybe i will get a bigger midrange driver, 8" or so
now i am looking around 4 and 5"
You say aluminium, how about titanium and carbon fiber?
Alot to choose from.
sealed or vented
I think it is good if the driver can take som power in case you want to play loud.
That may be why i am looking at more expensive drivers, what do you think?
I would never use a reflex loaded cabinet for a midrange. Easily complicates things and I dont know how. But I can just walk into a room - like at an exibition - and almost every time, point out which speakers that use a ported cabinet. But that's just me
And if it's already a goal to use DSP. Then I would not pay the higher price for flexunits. So many great drivers for way less. I would focus my money and time on better cabinets, layout and filter/DSP/measurements.
Also - I find the plastic drivers to be less good for midrange. I prefer alu.
focussing
4" better soundstage
8" higher spl and less distorsion.
driver is chosen according the over drivers (size, load, impedance, efficienty, technology)...
At this point you would have better sucess imo at making something designed cause there is a danger of bad result if you look for in all the directions - you have too much items that are not corelated with each others according the thread subject which is to start from a mid-
The Audax I talked about is at toutlehautparleur.com . it's a high efficienty 600 hz to 2k to 3k but not easy to work with due to its curve... but the Beyma AMT needs specials and high efficienty so is limiting the original topic, hence the proposal for it.
Have you seen the Faital 3WC 15" from Troels Gravsen or his Audiotechnology speakers as the Prelude with its cool first order vented mid ? Look at it's not easy to get at looking the filter which values are shown for the last...
Ceratinly the design from Humble home made hifi are no bad either and some huys as the lated Jeff Bagby made cool 3 ways. Also the Zaph d'Apolitto with its sealed 12" must be something imho...
Yeah I know, less fun. But a God good sounding speaker is not the sum of the best diaphragm materials...
And yes nothing wrong with some pro drivers - but some providers- but they just do not share the same trade offs than low efficienty hifi speakers, so all is about what you really want with the smooth... For instance a more modest speaker but invest in the room acoustic will certainly bring far more satisfaction . . .
But again the fun of drivers and what filters do... I'm addict as well ( I chose my epitaph btw: "he was poisoned by ears and loved all his murderers" )
IMHO, YMMV.
4" better soundstage
8" higher spl and less distorsion.
driver is chosen according the over drivers (size, load, impedance, efficienty, technology)...
At this point you would have better sucess imo at making something designed cause there is a danger of bad result if you look for in all the directions - you have too much items that are not corelated with each others according the thread subject which is to start from a mid-
The Audax I talked about is at toutlehautparleur.com . it's a high efficienty 600 hz to 2k to 3k but not easy to work with due to its curve... but the Beyma AMT needs specials and high efficienty so is limiting the original topic, hence the proposal for it.
Have you seen the Faital 3WC 15" from Troels Gravsen or his Audiotechnology speakers as the Prelude with its cool first order vented mid ? Look at it's not easy to get at looking the filter which values are shown for the last...
Ceratinly the design from Humble home made hifi are no bad either and some huys as the lated Jeff Bagby made cool 3 ways. Also the Zaph d'Apolitto with its sealed 12" must be something imho...
Yeah I know, less fun. But a God good sounding speaker is not the sum of the best diaphragm materials
... And yes nothing wrong with some pro drivers - but some providers- but they just do not share the same trade offs than low efficienty hifi speakers, so all is about what you really want with the smooth
... For instance a more modest speaker but invest in the room acoustic will certainly bring far more satisfaction . . .But again the fun of drivers and what filters do... I'm addict as well
( I chose my epitaph btw: "he was poisoned by ears and loved all his murderers" )IMHO, YMMV.
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1. for a couple of reasons:
A. you've already got the box built for the midbass + tweeter, and
B. a higher midrange (relative to the floor) allows for a bit less floor-bounce "suck-out" effect.
Note: I did a basic model of the 4" Flexunit, it looks like it would be around *8 liters w/ a 50 Hz tuning freq. w/ 1 vent about *2 inches in diameter with a box shape of about:
width: 5" (..though you will likely have some chamfered panels added to the box for better diffraction performance.)
height: 9" (with the midrange closer to the bottom of the baffle, and the vent closer to the top of the enclosure exiting the back panel.)
Depth: *12"
Again, with a high pass filter around 250-300 Hz.
*these can be a bit variable depending on cabinet wall thickness, vent length relative to the interior of the box, and box depth relative to the box below it (..you don't want the midrange box over-hanging the base cabinet). 50 Hz isn't "fixed" either, but it should not be to far off of this. Of course remember that actual T/S parameters will vary with a real driver, and Fs in particularly is usually higher than spec.ed (w/ Vas often being a bit lower).. In other words, some changes might be required (..though absolute precision isn't required in this use-case because the high-pass filter is so much higher than the port resonance).
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Some more drivers added, with aluminium cone
I will add some PA 8"
Bohlender Graebener Neo10 Planar Transducer w 75 spl 90 freq start 150 max freq 6000 Size 115x226mm looks Very cool price 370usd Scaspeak 12MU/4731T00 w 80 spl 90 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 120mm looks Nice looking motor price 255 eur FaitalPro 6PR160 w 120 spl 95 freq start 200 max freq 5000 Size 145mm looks
price 80 eur Flexunits 4 H 52 06 13 w 120 spl 89 freq start 100 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks Looks ok price 287 eur Visaton TI 100 Titan w 40 spl 86 freq start 150 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks very cool price 144 eur Peerless TC9F w 30 spl 87 freq start 150 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks
price 14eur Eton 4-218 Arcosia w 50 spl 87 freq start 200 max freq 2000 Size 4” looks looks too modern price 378 eur 12-250TC w 250 spl 98 freq start 50 max freq 17000 Size 12” looks VERY BIG price 85eur lavoice maf061.50 w 120 spl 97 freq start 400 max freq 2000 Size 6.5” looks
price 60 eur Görlich-Podszus MT 130 T w 50 spl 86 freq start 50 max freq 3000 Size 5” looks Nice looking price 281 eur Morel SCW-636 Neodym w 150 spl 87 freq start 100 max freq 2000 Size 6.5” looks too modern? price 319eur 505 Electrostatic Loudspeaker Panel w
spl
freq start
max freq
Size
looks
price 700aud / pair Dayton Audio Epique E160CF-8 Bass-midwoofer w 100 spl 89 freq start 100 max freq 2000 Size
looks
price
Visaton AL 130 M Aluminium w 60 spl 90 freq start 100 max freq 5000 Size 5” looks Looks ok price 114eur Esoteric Audio Devices E130 - Aluminium Woofer w 60 spl 84 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 5” looks looks great price 116eur Alcone 5.25 HE-S - Aluminium Membran w 80 spl 85 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 5,25” looks looks awesome! price 73eur Monacor SPH 100 AL Aluminium w 40 spl 87 freq start 150 max freq 4000 Size 4” looks Looks ok price 47eur
I will add some PA 8"
Bohlender Graebener Neo10 Planar Transducer w 75 spl 90 freq start 150 max freq 6000 Size 115x226mm looks Very cool price 370usd Scaspeak 12MU/4731T00 w 80 spl 90 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 120mm looks Nice looking motor price 255 eur FaitalPro 6PR160 w 120 spl 95 freq start 200 max freq 5000 Size 145mm looks
price 80 eur Flexunits 4 H 52 06 13 w 120 spl 89 freq start 100 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks Looks ok price 287 eur Visaton TI 100 Titan w 40 spl 86 freq start 150 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks very cool price 144 eur Peerless TC9F w 30 spl 87 freq start 150 max freq 5000 Size 4” looks
price 14eur Eton 4-218 Arcosia w 50 spl 87 freq start 200 max freq 2000 Size 4” looks looks too modern price 378 eur 12-250TC w 250 spl 98 freq start 50 max freq 17000 Size 12” looks VERY BIG price 85eur lavoice maf061.50 w 120 spl 97 freq start 400 max freq 2000 Size 6.5” looks
price 60 eur Görlich-Podszus MT 130 T w 50 spl 86 freq start 50 max freq 3000 Size 5” looks Nice looking price 281 eur Morel SCW-636 Neodym w 150 spl 87 freq start 100 max freq 2000 Size 6.5” looks too modern? price 319eur 505 Electrostatic Loudspeaker Panel w
spl
freq start
max freq
Size
looks
price 700aud / pair Dayton Audio Epique E160CF-8 Bass-midwoofer w 100 spl 89 freq start 100 max freq 2000 Size
looks
price
Visaton AL 130 M Aluminium w 60 spl 90 freq start 100 max freq 5000 Size 5” looks Looks ok price 114eur Esoteric Audio Devices E130 - Aluminium Woofer w 60 spl 84 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 5” looks looks great price 116eur Alcone 5.25 HE-S - Aluminium Membran w 80 spl 85 freq start 200 max freq 3000 Size 5,25” looks looks awesome! price 73eur Monacor SPH 100 AL Aluminium w 40 spl 87 freq start 150 max freq 4000 Size 4” looks Looks ok price 47eur
Hi
Yes, i try to think at leat a little bit consistant with chosing drivers so they will match
Its not PA but rather loud so the midrange shuould be pretty strong.
I am a little bit careful buying PA gear again ecause everything i purchased in that category seems pretty hard sound sounding
Now I played around with te settings and i thing it can do wonderful things so the system will be configured over time, i am sure that many drivers woud fit in this system because of its flexibility.
I think i will have a separate box on top of the speaker and buy a pair of drivers of the ones we discussed.
this is my accoustic barrier, just a matress behind the curtains=)
Dropbox - IMG_20200926_221956.jpg - Simplify your life
I did check out the 3WC 15" from Troels Gravsen
Yes, i try to think at leat a little bit consistant with chosing drivers so they will match
Its not PA but rather loud so the midrange shuould be pretty strong.
I am a little bit careful buying PA gear again ecause everything i purchased in that category seems pretty hard sound sounding
Now I played around with te settings and i thing it can do wonderful things so the system will be configured over time, i am sure that many drivers woud fit in this system because of its flexibility.
I think i will have a separate box on top of the speaker and buy a pair of drivers of the ones we discussed.
this is my accoustic barrier, just a matress behind the curtains=)
Dropbox - IMG_20200926_221956.jpg - Simplify your life
I did check out the 3WC 15" from Troels Gravsen
4" better soundstage
8" higher spl and less distorsion.
driver is chosen according the over drivers (size, load, impedance, efficienty, technology)...
At this point you would have better sucess imo at making something designed cause there is a danger of bad result if you look for in all the directions - you have too much items that are not corelated with each others according the thread subject which is to start from a mid-
The Audax I talked about is at toutlehautparleur.com . it's a high efficienty 600 hz to 2k to 3k but not easy to work with due to its curve... but the Beyma AMT needs specials and high efficienty so is limiting the original topic, hence the proposal for it.
Have you seen the Faital 3WC 15" from Troels Gravsen or his Audiotechnology speakers as the Prelude with its cool first order vented mid ? Look at it's not easy to get at looking the filter which values are shown for the last...
Ceratinly the design from Humble home made hifi are no bad either and some huys as the lated Jeff Bagby made cool 3 ways. Also the Zaph d'Apolitto with its sealed 12" must be something imho...
Yeah I know, less fun. But a God good sounding speaker is not the sum of the best diaphragm materials
And yes nothing wrong with some pro drivers - but some providers- but they just do not share the same trade offs than low efficienty hifi speakers, so all is about what you really want with the smooth
But again the fun of drivers and what filters do... I'm addict as well
IMHO, YMMV.
Yes
You tried many of the drivers and i think you understands my desire for the smoothest sound, its very valuable
Parts express has some more planars, very easy assembly and promising a more clear sound?
Some people advice 8" pro audio, i am not leaning towards this option but i a open to it
Some says metal membrane ,i cant really read the decay graphs properly but it makes sense
Accoustic elegance advice their 8" i would probably go for their 6" so i can have more flexibility crossing over
Not an easy choice but it can always be uppgraded later if the midrange will be on top of the speaker so i am not afraid of trying something different
You tried many of the drivers and i think you understands my desire for the smoothest sound, its very valuable
Parts express has some more planars, very easy assembly and promising a more clear sound?
Some people advice 8" pro audio, i am not leaning towards this option but i a open to it
Some says metal membrane ,i cant really read the decay graphs properly but it makes sense
Accoustic elegance advice their 8" i would probably go for their 6" so i can have more flexibility crossing over
Not an easy choice but it can always be uppgraded later if the midrange will be on top of the speaker so i am not afraid of trying something different
I think you've got enough information.. but you'll have to re-read it carefully to make a good decision.
Good luck!
+1.
The easiest is to supress from the list all the metal and 100% papers to get the things more easy. Removing the TPL 200 for a further project with drivers of the same sensivity -PA drivers - There is no sense toput 20 ohms resistor in front of the Beyma to try to mix it with a 86 db efficienty mid !
Try to think spl curve shape and listening room as well.
The easiest is to supress from the list all the metal and 100% papers to get the things more easy. Removing the TPL 200 for a further project with drivers of the same sensivity -PA drivers - There is no sense toput 20 ohms resistor in front of the Beyma to try to mix it with a 86 db efficienty mid !
Try to think spl curve shape and listening room as well.
No problem if active filters.
Many prefers to XO the TPL no lower than 1800 hz but if the mid is low efficienty that means you have headroom for distorsion for the tpl as you will not push it at PA level cause the limited high max of the hifi 4" mid. So cut off can be eventually lower, Beyma has a design too 1200 hz with a 12" ! While it's certainly dynamic and clear you will not have the smoothness off axis of a good design with lower size in the midrange... topic of the thread. Now lower XO with the tpl means also lower frequency width of the mid (less full range if you prefer as the AMT is already on the middle of the midrange) if you stay for a low size but if you choose a higher size 6" or 8" you can change the cut-offs -lower- as the Fs of the drivers is often lower. For illustration a 100/150 hz with a 6" or 8" till 1500 hz will the tpl makes more sense with such low pass, but the PA 6" or 8" have no low Fs as you guessed , only Fi drivers with low efficienty have low Fs.
I don't know what can be the soundstage of a vertical planar unit XOed in the middle of the midrange with a round driver though... certainly tricky and not smooth proof... dunno ! Why not a MTM with the TPL with 4" to 6" units ??? I can not though !
Choose your trade off poison .
Many prefers to XO the TPL no lower than 1800 hz but if the mid is low efficienty that means you have headroom for distorsion for the tpl as you will not push it at PA level cause the limited high max of the hifi 4" mid. So cut off can be eventually lower, Beyma has a design too 1200 hz with a 12" ! While it's certainly dynamic and clear you will not have the smoothness off axis of a good design with lower size in the midrange... topic of the thread. Now lower XO with the tpl means also lower frequency width of the mid (less full range if you prefer as the AMT is already on the middle of the midrange) if you stay for a low size but if you choose a higher size 6" or 8" you can change the cut-offs -lower- as the Fs of the drivers is often lower. For illustration a 100/150 hz with a 6" or 8" till 1500 hz will the tpl makes more sense with such low pass, but the PA 6" or 8" have no low Fs as you guessed , only Fi drivers with low efficienty have low Fs.
I don't know what can be the soundstage of a vertical planar unit XOed in the middle of the midrange with a round driver though... certainly tricky and not smooth proof... dunno ! Why not a MTM with the TPL with 4" to 6" units ??? I can not though !
Choose your trade off poison
.
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Well My thougts at first was exactly this, to cross the TPL much lower.
also i red on the acoustic elegance web that i would be able to cross the woofer alot higher.
So i ordered the drivers amps and dbx.
I got everything for a Good price so im happy with the purchase, the TPL is a very nice driver and i really Enjoy doing different settings on the dbx.
Than i started to look more the Specs and felt like gettting a midrange
My system is flexible so i can Always change it (and order more things )
I also have the chance to borrow boxes with 8" PA drivers to try
How about a horisontal MTM? Bad idea?
also i red on the acoustic elegance web that i would be able to cross the woofer alot higher.
So i ordered the drivers amps and dbx.
I got everything for a Good price so im happy with the purchase, the TPL is a very nice driver and i really Enjoy doing different settings on the dbx.
Than i started to look more the Specs and felt like gettting a midrange
My system is flexible so i can Always change it (and order more things
)I also have the chance to borrow boxes with 8" PA drivers to try
How about a horisontal MTM? Bad idea?
I think you've got enough information.. but you'll have to re-read it carefully to make a good decision.
Good luck!
I learned alot thank you ☺️
What would you do with the items that i got?
Maybe make it a 5 way system?
Just kidding☺️