Recommendation for a good mid range driver for vocal

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Look at it this way.

A pair of 10F's will set you back about $200. Add caps and coils and you'll end over $300. The result will be quite unpredictable, but one thing is certain: it will be worse, designing a good 3-way is harder than doing a 2-way. So you will end up with quite some cash spent and still no satisfying speaker.

However.
A reasonable measurement microphone, Dayton EMM6 does $60. Some USB audio interface that will serve you well and might be useful otherwise goes for $50 to $150. Throw in some cable and simple electronics, your PC that you already have and some spare time to learn measuring. You even could consider buying licenses for ARTA or other software, but there is no need. The result will likely be that you can optimize your existing design with a few filter parts and end up with a good speaker. Even with your quite randomly picked drivers.
 
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Yes I concur :) probably the cheapest way to get started with measurements is with a dayton IMM6 mic. They are sold for use with smart phones, but can be used with a mic pre that works with electrets, provided you make up an adaptor to go from TRRS to TRS.

Although I haven't tried it, it also has a line out socket in it (pass through) which I think should allow plugging into a laptops headphone socket (for mic in) and running another cable to the amp for the output signal. I must try that, it would be the cheapest recording setup you could get. About $30 for the mic, and probably about $10-$20 for cables/adapter.

I haven't done a recording yet. I'm dubious it will be much use if you listen to it on speakers you are already not happy with the midrange :) I thought you might have a chance of hearing their sound signature if you have some good neutral headphones that you like the sound of already, you can compare to the original track and the recording....

Tony.
 
Hi mark, I totally agree with what you have shared. Please correct me if I am wrong for what I am going to share. In order to make all the necessary measurements, is it correct that I have to have the driver first? So spending the $200 for the driver is unavoidable whether I am buying the measuring equipment or not.

With the measuring equipment, I can only start to design the crossover after getting all the measurement. That's to say I can only order the crossover parts after the completion of the crossover design. So basically I have to make 2 separate orders to complete the whole process. In case you never notice, I am staying in Singapore and shipping from US is never cheap. Sourcing for crossover components locally is almost impossible. The only difference is if I order the measuring equipment after I fail with my attempt, I end up with some extra crossover components and an extra shipping charges. Moreover if this happens to be my one and only DIY project, those measuring equipment will ended up sitting in the cupboard collecting dust for the rest of the years.

When I started out with this little DIY project I have already set aside a certain amount of money regardless whether it is going to succeed or turns out to be a failure. At least so far I am liking what I hear from the current setup and in fact I am liking it more each day after it has been run in for the past few days.

Once again I must emphasis that I totally understand all of you are giving me very useful and good advice, I really appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. I hope you guys can understand that I am trying to learn something and at the same time have some fun with this hobby of mine. Cheers :) .

Still looking forward for more suggestion for a good vocal midrange driver. TIA.
 
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Hi Mark, point taken. It is indeed more complicated to design a 3 way XO as compare the a 2 way system.

Yesterday I found a possible midrange driver candidate and have been trying to simulate a XO using it as a mid driver. It is the Peerless NE123W-08 4" driver. I have the FR curve of the 3 way XO design based on Xsim, if based on this simulated FR curve, do you guys think it will work out? Btw the polarity of the mid driver is inverted for this simulation.
 

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  • 3 Way HiVi RT1.3(T) +Peerless NE123W(M) + Tang Band W6-1721-FR.JPG
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If the cost of a measurement system is an objection, slap a decent electret capsule on a chopstick, connect it to a laptop and you are good to go:
Gainphile: Cheap and accurate speaker measurement

The bias circuit is optional, as most laptops already provide a bias voltage at the microphone input.

Most small omnidirectional capsules are accurate from 100 to 5000 Hz and deviate only a few dB at other frequencies, which is not a big problem for designing a crossover. Sound cards sometimes roll off below 100 Hz as well.
Recording and Measurement Microphones
 
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I have the FR curve of the 3 way XO design based on Xsim, if based on this simulated FR curve, do you guys think it will work out? Btw the polarity of the mid driver is inverted for this simulation.
The whole point is, do you correct the data sheet measurements? Because those measurements are quite different from those made when the drivers are mounted in the box.
 
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It’s tough to beat a Scan Speak 10F/8424 for clear smooth and low distortion midrange. You can save some money using the 10F/8414 variant. Alternatively, a TG9FD-8 is very good to for 1/5th the price but can’t find them anymore.

Other great midranges are Visaton B80 almost as good as 10F. You can also try PRV 5MR450NDY, or B&C 6MDN44, if you need more sensitivity.

If cost is no object, get the Volt VM752. :)
 
OK, I'll try to make my point better. This is a Zaph Audio ZA14 as measured by John Krutke on a IEC baffle:

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This, again, is the driver mounted in a normal rectangular box:

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As you see, rather disturbing differences mainly in the lower region. This is due to the baffle step function. As the differences exceed 5dB, they certainly are noticeable. I hope you see you need measurements of the driver in YOUR box.
 

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Hi guys, kindly help me out and do a little survey here. If today you are going to build or buy a new pair of speaker, based on the 3 attached FR curves, which one would be your favorite? The one on the left as 1, center as 2 and right as 3. TIA :) .
 

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  • 3 Way HiVi RT1.3(T) + SB12MNRX25-4(M) + Tang Band W6-1721.JPG
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  • 3 Way HiVi RT1.3(T) + Scanspeak 10F-8424G(M) + Tang Band W6-1721.JPG
    3 Way HiVi RT1.3(T) + Scanspeak 10F-8424G(M) + Tang Band W6-1721.JPG
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  • 3 Way HiVi RT1.3(T) +Peerless NE123W(M) + Tang Band W6-1721-FR.JPG
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As you see, rather disturbing differences mainly in the lower region. This is due to the baffle step function. As the differences exceed 5dB, they certainly are noticeable. I hope you see you need measurements of the driver in YOUR box.

Wow... that's a nasty difference with and without the box. Thanks for sharing that and now I see why many of you keep advising me to get a measuring mic to do a proper measurement.
 
Are there not accurate tools to simulate the nicely traced curves on large baffles to ones in small box baffles? Try the "response modeler" to simulate the baffle induced changes and model from there. I also see higher crossover points on the tweeter in most applications. Closer to 3k 4th order.
 
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Hi guys, kindly help me out and do a little survey here. If today you are going to build or buy a new pair of speaker, based on the 3 attached FR curves, which one would be your favorite? The one on the left as 1, center as 2 and right as 3. TIA :) .

Which one would you choose?
Your eyes make the choice easy!

But then again....its only a sim, and baffle effects will render any decision made based on those plots, moot.
 
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