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Dipole In-Room-Response Target
Dipole In-Room-Response Target
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Old 30th June 2020, 12:44 PM   #1
Tou is offline Tou  Germany
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Default Dipole In-Room-Response Target

Hi,

for Monopol loudspeakers exists some target curves for the in room response (linke from toole, harman, etc.).

Are they adjustible to a dipole speaker?
Some of the diy folks try to get a perfect dipole response to the back and the front as high as possible (8-20khz). But this lead mostly to an even (or near even) In-Room-Response. And regarding toole this is not the target for a monopole speaker.
If wie usw a cone speaker for >2khz, then wie have generally a less spl on the backside of this cone. The resulting in room response will look more like the toole curve for untrained listeners.

Do you have experience with the best target curve for a Dipole?

Best regards, Tomas

Last edited by Tou; 30th June 2020 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 30th June 2020, 01:59 PM   #2
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Dipole In-Room-Response Target
Room tests & measurements is a good starting point for some research. lots of other good stuff on the late SL's website.
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Old 30th June 2020, 02:43 PM   #3
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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Well, dipoles are all different and not perfect dipoles through the audio band. Most are monopole in tweeter range above 3kHz and the a "normal" slope should be ok.

Anyway, if you are making and adjusting speakers for yourself, just trust your ears an find the room curve that sounds best for you, your speakers in your room!
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Old 30th June 2020, 04:18 PM   #4
Tou is offline Tou  Germany
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Hi Jahuzi,

you use for example the BG neo3 pdr where you get a flat in room response for high frequency.

If you use the FRS 5x or another 2" driver you get a in room response like this :
Zielkurve zur Kompensation des Bundelungsverhaltens - Seite 2 - Visaton Diskussionsforum (See the picture from Rudolf)

What is better? What listening experience do you get if you damp the high frequency on the backside with your gradient speaker?
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Old 1st July 2020, 01:20 AM   #5
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Dipole In-Room-Response Target
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tou View Post
try to get a perfect dipole response to the back and the front as high as possible (8-20khz). But this lead mostly to an even (or near even) In-Room-Response.
Aiming for consistent acoustic behaviour and equalising, can make better sense than modifying the directivity to alter the output.
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Old 1st July 2020, 07:12 AM   #6
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tou View Post
Hi Jahuzi,

you use for example the BG neo3 pdr where you get a flat in room response for high frequency.

If you use the FRS 5x or another 2" driver you get a in room response like this :
Zielkurve zur Kompensation des Bundelungsverhaltens - Seite 2 - Visaton Diskussionsforum (See the picture from Rudolf)

What is better? What listening experience do you get if you damp the high frequency on the backside with your gradient speaker?
Can't say about Visaton, but here are my measurements with Fountek Neo3.5 with and without backside tweeter. Later on I got the B&G Neoe 3PDR. I have bad hearing of high freq, but I can hear these differences. Flat spot response is ok for me and my speakers sitting in front of windows!

Aino gradient - a collaborative speaker project

And a few posts later comparison of response with and without. Room responses on later posts. Yes I liked the backside tweeter effect on sound!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by Juhazi; 1st July 2020 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 03:46 PM   #7
Tou is offline Tou  Germany
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Generally i got the same information from the Website of SL. If someone adds a backside tweeter the overall soundquality gets better.

Did somebody of you test an 2" driver for the the frequencys?

The result should be something between 1. only front dome tweeter 2. back and front tweeter.
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Old 1st July 2020, 04:38 PM   #8
Tou is offline Tou  Germany
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Thank you for the answers!

Has somebody of you tested additionaly a 2" driver in comperasion? How is the sound quality in regarding the high frequencies?
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Old 1st July 2020, 04:53 PM   #9
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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A small come has very ragged on-axis response and dispersion on the backside, because of it's spider and motor structure. But obviously it's total radiated energy i roughly same front/back. Uneven dispeersion will most likely make it sound a little different from a dome tweeter mounted on backside.

The advantage of dual units is that you can play with polarity, filter and spl. Passive needs components and active needs one more dsp channel.

Planar open back tweeters have best symmetry in dispersion front/back! But to manipulate backside radiation one must use tricks like superlon sheets. I chose to not manipulate.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ainogneo83 vx out 0-180 polar.jpg (62.4 KB, 68 views)
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Old 1st July 2020, 06:55 PM   #10
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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That response was quasi-anechoic. Room response that my dipoles produce and I like is almost flat, some measurements here. I don't use EQ for room modes!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ainogneo83 conf3 vs conf3+ room spot 500ms 148.jpg (166.1 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg ainogneo83 conf3+ 200220 spot.jpg (186.3 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg ainogneo83 v4c L rta mmm.jpg (91.1 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg ainogneo83 v4c LR varimic ave 500ms.jpg (148.5 KB, 17 views)
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Last edited by Juhazi; 1st July 2020 at 07:14 PM.
 

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