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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Medium-woofer High-Pass when crossed in the snap <200hz area ?
Medium-woofer High-Pass when crossed in the snap <200hz area ?
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Old 30th June 2020, 12:31 PM   #1
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Default Medium-woofer High-Pass when crossed in the snap <200hz area ?

Hello,

I would please like to know if there would be a difference with two caps arengement for the high pass of a woofer-medium unit which XO is in the 100 hz/200 hz where there is a lot of energy and snap behavior in the music.

If the high pass of the woofer-mid is made of 250 uF and basic MKP caps are choosed, is there a noticeable sounding difference between these two arrengement please :

- 2 caps // : 200 + 50 uF
- 5 caps // : 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 uF

Theorically second is best because the divided inductance and better esr, but will it be hearable enough in real life, given the caps are MKP (CrossCaps from Jantzen in mind) ? Second solution is more bulky and expensive !
Should I also increase a little the serie resistors value if a former smooth foil lytic is swapped for the MKPs or the Z diference will be low enough not to be noticed during the playback ?

Many thanks.


Edit : I also assume less Z in serie is giving a lowered impedance of the driver, so a different crossover frequency number ? Or is just the spl that is changing and the driver impedance curve is not moving whatever the Z in serie before the voice coil ?
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Last edited by diyiggy; 30th June 2020 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 02:13 AM   #2
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Medium-woofer High-Pass when crossed in the snap &lt;200hz area ?
It would be interesting to get the numbers for ESR and ESL and calculate it. Do you have the data sheet for your capacitor?
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Old 1st July 2020, 02:24 AM   #3
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Modern caps, both film and electrolytic, are a lot better than before.

Have you thought about measuring?? You can use Room EQ Wizard (REW) with a home made impedance jig.
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Old 1st July 2020, 05:02 AM   #4
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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I have not the caps yet. They are Jantzen Cross-Cap serie

ESR is 0.00005 and insulation resitance at 1 k is 104 M Ohms for these capacitance values.

The fact is I never see such a huge value with standalone caps but instead the value divided in several caps as in the scenario. E.g. Troels Gravsen.

I'm asking if there is a reason as he also use often resistors and there is the serie resistance of the voice coil in the medium network? I can at least understand with lytics, even the modernest smooth foils but for MKPs why should it matter ? I thought about less inductance perhaps ?
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Old 1st July 2020, 07:13 AM   #5
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Medium-woofer High-Pass when crossed in the snap &lt;200hz area ?
When the windings are overlapped at the edge and the edge is solder dipped, it creates a low inductance design.

Why does Troels do it? I don't think it is resistance or inductance. Are larger values available? Is there a version with electrolytics in the woofer circuits?
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Old 1st July 2020, 01:05 PM   #6
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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AllenB, I believe you got it !

Indeed, I have been checking at Jantzen and when T. Gravsen uses a caps bank for a big capacitance need, the limitation comes from the maximum uF avaliable in the Jantzen Superior range : 22 uF max. And the Standard blue line : 100 uF max. Finally the Cross-Caps line : 330 uF max. He doesn't use this last.

Assuming it's a new filter design, so inside a same MKP capacitor family, but the area management on the pcb, there is no special reason to divide a big value from a standalone capacitor into several smaller... ;few noticeable difference enough with MKP on the ESR vs eventually the tue resistors in serie to match the spl level. And anyway the impedance curve between two choices will not be affected. Is it correct ?

I naivly believed a mid Xoed very low in this 100/200 hz area could be more snappy, punch acurate with a mkp bank for the serie cap than a big standalone one !

Thank you AllenB, you answered to my trade off problem . I assume also for the ones who choose film caps that low and don't want NPE because of agging behavior, MKT will do as well as "low" quality MKP : Solen, Cross-Cap, generic MKPs....
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