Hi friends!.
Looking opinions for my next build. It will be a slim 2.5 way floorstander.
The tweeter will be the satori ring radiator and I want to debate on the Satori mw16p vs Vifa NE180W drivers.
I know that satori is easier to work with and has better distortion profiles, but I've read many people saying that vifa ne180w actually sounds better.
Also the vifa ne180w is about 20 dollars cheaper per unit.
Looking opinions for my next build. It will be a slim 2.5 way floorstander.
The tweeter will be the satori ring radiator and I want to debate on the Satori mw16p vs Vifa NE180W drivers.
I know that satori is easier to work with and has better distortion profiles, but I've read many people saying that vifa ne180w actually sounds better.
Also the vifa ne180w is about 20 dollars cheaper per unit.
My take and experience on this is that a very good driver will sound dull to many "twinklers" - there is no personality one might say. So the question is what you *really* want? A completely true reproduction or something else. Personally I believe that once real transparency is achieved, everything gets really exciting - but it takes all part of the chain to get there and it's hard. If one part is not up to par - the whole thing collapses and one might be better off actually with one of them suppling a bit of "personality" into the system.
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I don’t have the MW16 but I do have the Peerless NE180W-08 and it sounds great. Well made thick cast frame and Neo magnet assembly. Impressive looking suspension system. Very easy to integrate into a speaker with a tweeter, and crossover is simple to implement. Cost was $88ea, $50 less than the Satori.
With lower cost SB_Acoustics aluminum cone drivers you could build a big-bass 3-way ( 6" mid + 2*8" woof = $289) for about the same price of two 6" Satori MW16P-8 midbass = $296.
8" woofers require ~10.7" wide front baffle, BUT you can also put them side-side to maintain an 8.5" wide front baffles with just the 6" midbass + tweeter.
So, how important is strong, deep bass for this room usage?
SB17NAC35-4 $70.45
SB23BAC45-8 $109.45
SB23BAC45-8 $109.45
..................... $289.35
MW16P-8 $148.10
8" woofers require ~10.7" wide front baffle, BUT you can also put them side-side to maintain an 8.5" wide front baffles with just the 6" midbass + tweeter.
So, how important is strong, deep bass for this room usage?
SB17NAC35-4 $70.45
SB23BAC45-8 $109.45
SB23BAC45-8 $109.45
..................... $289.35
MW16P-8 $148.10
Madisound website:
Rinjani 2.5-Way Satori by SB_Acoustics
SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI BY TROELS GRAVESEN
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Satori Rinjani 2.5-Way Speaker Kit - Pair With Cabinets
This 2.5-way floor standing speaker kit utilizes top of the line of Satori drivers and was engineered by the Danish SB engineering team. The gently faceted top corner shape is specially designed to reduce high frequency diffraction and yields superb imaging qualities. 7⁰ inclined baffle slope helps time align the drivers, allowing for a relatively simple crossover design that delivers impressive sound staging. The wedge shaped inner rear walls behind the midwoofers reduce reflections, while the inclined bottom diminishes standing waves. Dual rear ports distribute port resonance evenly and eliminate potential noise during high output use.
Each Rinjani Purchase Includes:
(2) Satori TW29R Ring Dome Tweeters
(4) Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofers
Satori Rinjani 2.5-Way Speaker Kit - Pair
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SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI KIT BY TROELS GRAVESEN - PAIR
Featuring 7½” and 6″ drivers in a 2½-way offers potent bass from a modest floor-stander. 90 dB sensitivity and smooth impedance provide an easy load for even smaller tube amps. 1st order filtering for minimal insertion loss.
Madisound is pleased to offer the brand-new SBA-761 Kit designed by Troels Gravesen featuring the latest flagship drivers from the high-end SB Satori line: Satori MW19P-8 7.5" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofer, Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofer, and Satori TW29RN-B-8 Ring Dome Tweeter.
SB Acoustics Satori SBA-761 2.5-Way Kit - Pair
Price: $1,066.99
SB ACOUSTICS SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI KIT
Rinjani 2.5-Way Satori by SB_Acoustics
SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI BY TROELS GRAVESEN
==========
==========
Satori Rinjani 2.5-Way Speaker Kit - Pair With Cabinets
This 2.5-way floor standing speaker kit utilizes top of the line of Satori drivers and was engineered by the Danish SB engineering team. The gently faceted top corner shape is specially designed to reduce high frequency diffraction and yields superb imaging qualities. 7⁰ inclined baffle slope helps time align the drivers, allowing for a relatively simple crossover design that delivers impressive sound staging. The wedge shaped inner rear walls behind the midwoofers reduce reflections, while the inclined bottom diminishes standing waves. Dual rear ports distribute port resonance evenly and eliminate potential noise during high output use.
Each Rinjani Purchase Includes:
(2) Satori TW29R Ring Dome Tweeters
(4) Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofers
Satori Rinjani 2.5-Way Speaker Kit - Pair
======//=======
SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI KIT BY TROELS GRAVESEN - PAIR
Featuring 7½” and 6″ drivers in a 2½-way offers potent bass from a modest floor-stander. 90 dB sensitivity and smooth impedance provide an easy load for even smaller tube amps. 1st order filtering for minimal insertion loss.
Madisound is pleased to offer the brand-new SBA-761 Kit designed by Troels Gravesen featuring the latest flagship drivers from the high-end SB Satori line: Satori MW19P-8 7.5" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofer, Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus Cone Woofer, and Satori TW29RN-B-8 Ring Dome Tweeter.
SB Acoustics Satori SBA-761 2.5-Way Kit - Pair
Price: $1,066.99
SB ACOUSTICS SBA-761 2.5-WAY SATORI KIT
Thanks you all for sharing your thoughts.
I would like to keep it slim, around 20cm (8inch), 19cm is the Rinjani which seems ideal. I will use a fairly good sub, so deep bass is not a priority. Never thought that i could place them at the side. Do you have in mind any project with that or similar set up? (2x8+6+tweeter)
I was leaning towards Rinjani, but I am thinking that probably the tw29RN will be better than the ferrite, but many people making me wonder about the satoris. One experienced friends is trying to change my mind proposing something like your proposition, but he favors the sb17nrx for the mids and the ceramics for the bass.
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DIYandros
Setting a financial budget, deciding on new technogies like bi-amping the woofer + TM, and understanding the limits of your woodshop can help your build decisions.
There are a few 12" woofers like the $172 SB_Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 which produce deep 36Hz bass in a tight transient SEALED 3+cuft cabinet. The 12" can be mounted on a wide side panel, and the cabinet can be tall to get 3+ cuft volume. Example attached. Narrow front baffle with Avalon-style truncated pyramid baffle top, side wide enough for 12" woofer, height with tweeter mounted ~39" high. A tweeter-midrange stepped baffle for time alignment is a second alternative to Avalon bevels.
SB26ADC-4 $50.20 Aluminum Dome Tweeter
SB17NAC35-4 $70.45 sealed 6" midrange
SB34NRX75-6 $172 sealed 12" woofer
......................... $293
Setting a financial budget, deciding on new technogies like bi-amping the woofer + TM, and understanding the limits of your woodshop can help your build decisions.
There are a few 12" woofers like the $172 SB_Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 which produce deep 36Hz bass in a tight transient SEALED 3+cuft cabinet. The 12" can be mounted on a wide side panel, and the cabinet can be tall to get 3+ cuft volume. Example attached. Narrow front baffle with Avalon-style truncated pyramid baffle top, side wide enough for 12" woofer, height with tweeter mounted ~39" high. A tweeter-midrange stepped baffle for time alignment is a second alternative to Avalon bevels.
SB26ADC-4 $50.20 Aluminum Dome Tweeter
SB17NAC35-4 $70.45 sealed 6" midrange
SB34NRX75-6 $172 sealed 12" woofer
......................... $293
Attachments
The comments Troels Gravensen makes about the sound character of the SB_Acoustics aluminum cone drivers might help your decision vs. more expensive Satori paper cone drivers.
Google: SBAcoustics 61-NAC
=====My Pitch.... Stereo Bass is important.
The world has multi-source bass.....don't mess it up!
A term coined by Todd Welti, Bassiousness (base-shush-ness), is more fitting. Stereo bass is not about our ability to place the apparent location of an instrument at low frequencies, it is about a sense of envelopment or spaciousness at low frequencies. When the effect is present, it is what allows bass to sound like it is coming from outside our head. When bass is monophonic (such as is the case with most summed-bass systems), bass tends to sound like it is coming from inside our head.
I BELIEVE....The front stereo pair should produce deep stereo bass, and this requires a 3+ cuft cabinet, or DSP + big-watts to equalize stereo sealed woofers.
I BELIEVE....sealed woofers reproduce transients superor to ported woofer.
Google: SBAcoustics 61-NAC
=====My Pitch.... Stereo Bass is important.
The world has multi-source bass.....don't mess it up!
A term coined by Todd Welti, Bassiousness (base-shush-ness), is more fitting. Stereo bass is not about our ability to place the apparent location of an instrument at low frequencies, it is about a sense of envelopment or spaciousness at low frequencies. When the effect is present, it is what allows bass to sound like it is coming from outside our head. When bass is monophonic (such as is the case with most summed-bass systems), bass tends to sound like it is coming from inside our head.
I BELIEVE....The front stereo pair should produce deep stereo bass, and this requires a 3+ cuft cabinet, or DSP + big-watts to equalize stereo sealed woofers.
I BELIEVE....sealed woofers reproduce transients superor to ported woofer.
The issue with the Rinjani is that the crossover frequency is pretty high at 3000 Hz.
SB seems to do that with all of their house designs, but most other designers typically crossover much lower for similar driver alignments.
I chose (almost) these exact drivers for my active 3 way project which I completed in April. I used the SB17CAC and SB26CDC versions (aluminum with aluminum-oxide ceramic layer)... Within the SB lineup of drivers, the aluminum and the ceramic drivers are so close to each other they are almost interchangeable.
I found the SB34NRX75-6 to be an outstanding driver. I have a very large listening room, 22 ft x 32 ft, with a ceiling that slopes upward from 8 ft to 19 ft high. The room is open to the rest of the house, so all the other rooms act as bass traps (for better or worse). I found a pair of SB34NRX75-6 in 3 cubic foot boxes are more than enough.
I agree completely with this. I would rather have a pair of smaller 10" subs than a single 15", even if the single 15 has better low frequency capability and better total SPL capability.
After being a dedicated vented box advocate for 30 years, I am now firmly in the sealed box camp. If the tuning frequency is below 32 Hz, the vented box seems to be almost as good as a sealed box... but if the tuning frequency is above 32 Hz, I just do not care for the quality of the bass.
I have a good subwoofer driver, peerless xls 10 @ 40 liter with passive radiator. According to peerless this setup goes almost flat to 20 hz and due to the nomex mebrane can also perform well up to 200hz.
I will probably go for 2way with vifa ne180w and scanspeak hds tweeter
The store where I buy from insists that vifa will do better than satori, also insists on the hds tweeter for equal good performance as the satori at a better price.
I will probably go for 2way with vifa ne180w and scanspeak hds tweeter
The store where I buy from insists that vifa will do better than satori, also insists on the hds tweeter for equal good performance as the satori at a better price.
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I am not experienced user, my opinion should matter the least. All I can say is that I am excited with the sound of the ceramic, honestly sometimes I ask myself how much better a driver can be? Very detailed and very very live sound. For me it is 10/10 for the price.
I will probably go for the satori sometime, mostly because many people who had both, say that satori is more "amusing"
I will probably go for the satori sometime, mostly because many people who had both, say that satori is more "amusing"
yes i suspect that the more rigid cone will reproduce better ambient details and metallic instruments, including horns with low frequency content....so maybe it is ideal for movies and speech and games if called upon.
the 6 inch looks like it have a nasty breakup though, on the negative side, but not exclusive to the ceramic.
i have read somewhere that it may have slow bass if too congested in that area but i may be wrong...not sure if you or anyone have experienced that.
the 6 inch looks like it have a nasty breakup though, on the negative side, but not exclusive to the ceramic.
i have read somewhere that it may have slow bass if too congested in that area but i may be wrong...not sure if you or anyone have experienced that.
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