After your post and reading the high box with the Polyimide Horn Compression Driver being the Dayton 250 or BC DE 250.... PRV 290....or now the new
Celestion CDX1-1747 1" 120 Watt 1000-20,000. and the depth meeting my size requirement I was trying to reach....also seeing the tube design for the
10" speaker was of help.....never saw that trick tube before...
thanks Fatmarley............
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Celestion CDX1-1747 1" 120 Watt 1000-20,000.
WooooooowMy dream... if there is a paradise after I want to be transported there !
Here's a pristine pair for $6999, nowadays a bargain on a par with the fabled $500 for an all original '57 fuelie 'vette in the barn back in the '70: Altec horn loaded speakers Public Group | Facebook
GM
A pair of plans?
OK, the 210 is the vertical cab and 211 its horizontal variant.
Note that the drawings are for the later 16" frames and while missing some info, all the critical ones are there IIRC.
210: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures03.jpg
211: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures04.jpg
GM
Would not think to many Altec A4s are still around....sadly
Price: $6,000.00 Original Price: $25,000.00 Days/Views: 3014 / 2361 (Posted 2012-03-24) Condition: 7/10 Good Seller: Feedback: unrated
We have a vintage Altec Lansing 'Voice of the Theater' Model A4 Speaker system for sale. What is included: 3 Altec 'Voice of the Theater' A4 Speakers 3 288C compression drivers on 30210 horns (10 cell) plus:
4 Altec 515 woofers in amazing condition (these are what are in the A4 cabinet) 2 Altec 288C compression drivers on 30162 horns 2 Altec N500D crossovers
plus:
1 Sensurround (by MCA Systems) Subwoofer.
We are wanting to sell this as a complete package but for the right offer the components will be sold seperately from the complete speaker system. Please contact me through this Craigslist ad with an initial offer and we can arrange a viewing here in Utica, NY by appointment only A truck is available for transport of this system to a location of your choice for a fee Be aware: the A4 Speakers are about 7 feet tall and approx 650 pounds each without the horn.
Price: $6,000.00 Original Price: $25,000.00 Days/Views: 3014 / 2361 (Posted 2012-03-24) Condition: 7/10 Good Seller: Feedback: unrated
We have a vintage Altec Lansing 'Voice of the Theater' Model A4 Speaker system for sale. What is included: 3 Altec 'Voice of the Theater' A4 Speakers 3 288C compression drivers on 30210 horns (10 cell) plus:
4 Altec 515 woofers in amazing condition (these are what are in the A4 cabinet) 2 Altec 288C compression drivers on 30162 horns 2 Altec N500D crossovers
plus:
1 Sensurround (by MCA Systems) Subwoofer.
We are wanting to sell this as a complete package but for the right offer the components will be sold seperately from the complete speaker system. Please contact me through this Craigslist ad with an initial offer and we can arrange a viewing here in Utica, NY by appointment only A truck is available for transport of this system to a location of your choice for a fee Be aware: the A4 Speakers are about 7 feet tall and approx 650 pounds each without the horn.
18" woofer punch vs. 15" woofer punch "that is the Q"
This post started on enhanced midrange. And the picture post of a 3-way system with separate box for bass/mid/high. The bass in the picture was a 18" woofer I had some concerns on say the punch of a 15" woofer and the 18' woofer having that 15" woofer punch.
Question anyone have any input on the 18" woofer punch, concerning a 18" woofers punch vs a 15" woofer punch.??G]
This post started on enhanced midrange. And the picture post of a 3-way system with separate box for bass/mid/high. The bass in the picture was a 18" woofer I had some concerns on say the punch of a 15" woofer and the 18' woofer having that 15" woofer punch.
Question anyone have any input on the 18" woofer punch, concerning a 18" woofers punch vs a 15" woofer punch.??G]
Sorry I lost track of this thread. Maybe should have subscribed.
When I expressed my doubts about twin 10s, it was as a midrange driver. The good examples shown here and elsewhere are what I would think of as woofers, not dedicated midrange.
If you are crossing out of twin 10s at 1-1.4kHz, then sure, no worries. But aren't those just woofers? If you want to use twin 10s as what I think of as a midrange driver, say up to ~5kHz, then you'll have problems.
When I expressed my doubts about twin 10s, it was as a midrange driver. The good examples shown here and elsewhere are what I would think of as woofers, not dedicated midrange.
If you are crossing out of twin 10s at 1-1.4kHz, then sure, no worries. But aren't those just woofers? If you want to use twin 10s as what I think of as a midrange driver, say up to ~5kHz, then you'll have problems.
I have deleted your link which ran to zillions of characters in length and was causing this thread and other peoples images to freeze when loading.
Please attach images as follows:
How to attach images to your posts.
Thanks
Same for this one.They are looking like this. You can see how massive they are. Some of these are over a million characters in length.
Attachments
Re the 18"; news to me! How was I supposed to know it was an 18" from a distorted, poor quality image rather than the 15" you referenced?
Otherwise; I responded with a good, simple way for anyone to answer your mid-range question, or any other BW for that matter, though you've yet to even acknowledge it!
Where was 'punch' mentioned/implied, much less the prime concern?
Factor in that 'punch' is in the ~100-180 Hz 'bass' or 'mid-bass' BW [depending on which musical instrument chart used].......as far I'm concerned this thread needs the MODs to bust it up into 'mid-range' and 'Altec Vott' threads or added to an existing one and start a new one for what you're really wanting, i.e. finding how many of what size driver is required for a prominent 'presence' in the 'boom/punch' BW while still wide [HF] range enough to XO to whatever size/number mids driver
Recommend letting the [equalized] HF system govern the minimum system efficiency if you want it done right since the lower the frequency, the wider its mids/HF BW.
FWIW, until fairly recently, this BW was [and still is in some apps] what constituted the [thumping] 'bottom' bass line of recordings, prosound apps where it was flat from 80-300 Hz, rolling off 12 dB/octave [4th order] to 40 Hz, so browsing [vintage] prosound multi-way speakers makes for an excellent guideline.
GM
The first post was with the speaker separate cabinets.....I did not know until
Fatmarley informed that had seen the speakers before where and the picture was model after the JBL 4345 studio monitors with a 18". I did not think about it due to the fact my thoughts were the 18" would not perform as well for me as a 15" and the JBL monitor 18" woofer finding one. I was interested if anyone had any experience with a 18" in a studio monitor.???
Fatmarley informed that had seen the speakers before where and the picture was model after the JBL 4345 studio monitors with a 18". I did not think about it due to the fact my thoughts were the 18" would not perform as well for me as a 15" and the JBL monitor 18" woofer finding one. I was interested if anyone had any experience with a 18" in a studio monitor.???
18" woofer punch vs. 15" woofer punch "that is the Q"
The JBL 4345 18" woofer 10" mid, lens,super tweet....
Quote:
No, I don't have anything to sell or any other dog in the hunt. But I've been around long enough to see a whole lot of ambitious 4 way projects fall by the wayside due to more ambition than know how. I've seen guys build 4345 clones - with the correct drivers - and still ripping their hair out due to the complexity of the beasts. I know just enough about it to know I'd have a better chance of flying to the moon than building a 4 way crossover that actually works.
I think this answered my question
Quote:
There is a thread on that here if you go decide to go that route ...
nearly 10 years back I bought a pair of used 4341 (the early end of the big 4 way designs, with 15s instead of 18" woofers)
My 4341s came with a pair of 2123s as the mid bass drivers - the original owners swapped in whatever was handy when their 2121s failed (probably the typical crumbling surround issue) . I tried to be a purist and sold off the 2123s and had one of the JBL coners build me a pair of 2122s - which was doable 8 years ago when I was headed that path. Seemed like a good solution at the time.
I'm not sure how available the 2122 parts are now.
The JBL 4345 18" woofer 10" mid, lens,super tweet....
Quote:
No, I don't have anything to sell or any other dog in the hunt. But I've been around long enough to see a whole lot of ambitious 4 way projects fall by the wayside due to more ambition than know how. I've seen guys build 4345 clones - with the correct drivers - and still ripping their hair out due to the complexity of the beasts. I know just enough about it to know I'd have a better chance of flying to the moon than building a 4 way crossover that actually works.
I think this answered my question
Quote:
There is a thread on that here if you go decide to go that route ...
nearly 10 years back I bought a pair of used 4341 (the early end of the big 4 way designs, with 15s instead of 18" woofers)
My 4341s came with a pair of 2123s as the mid bass drivers - the original owners swapped in whatever was handy when their 2121s failed (probably the typical crumbling surround issue) . I tried to be a purist and sold off the 2123s and had one of the JBL coners build me a pair of 2122s - which was doable 8 years ago when I was headed that path. Seemed like a good solution at the time.
I'm not sure how available the 2122 parts are now.
Last edited:
Theorically : a 18" has often a lower Fs than a 15" . A 18" has problems above 200/250 hz, which needs a XO in the area of the "chest punch"...or perhaps an active stiff XO (48 db?)for easier result.
a 15" can be cuted-off at 500/600 hz w/o problems, some easily sings one octave higher. Easier to work with I surmise. 2x 15" horizontaly side to side move less than a standalone one and perhaps as a 18" but have a narrower horizontal patern. Maybe better than a 18" for most room ? I don't know in real life vs a 18" . An illustration with two 15" in a line is the Koizumi Onken 360 which is certainly enough for most hoes big room or studios...
A 15" alone in an Altec A7 is certainly enough... and has this punch. Wit a modern horn it might be a nice & lively loudspeaker . The A4 asks a venue or a huge millionaire loft.
YMMV, just my two cents as the asking is large enough.
a 15" can be cuted-off at 500/600 hz w/o problems, some easily sings one octave higher. Easier to work with I surmise. 2x 15" horizontaly side to side move less than a standalone one and perhaps as a 18" but have a narrower horizontal patern. Maybe better than a 18" for most room ? I don't know in real life vs a 18" . An illustration with two 15" in a line is the Koizumi Onken 360 which is certainly enough for most hoes big room or studios...
A 15" alone in an Altec A7 is certainly enough... and has this punch. Wit a modern horn it might be a nice & lively loudspeaker
. The A4 asks a venue or a huge millionaire loft.YMMV, just my two cents as the asking is large enough.
Thanks diyggy.....I think my view of the 18" woofer that was loaded in the
speaker of 3 cabinets I posted on page one....Is solved by the JBL post
on how hard using a 18" woofer is in a build in the post 32...and the 15" woofer
is king on how many you have to choose from. So back to "Midrange" 10" speaker
enhanced poss.
Thanks Pano on the array 8' x horn array.....Do you remember any thing about them what 45 years ago.....
Im thinking now in the "midrange box" using the 10" mid as designed and the
B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Driver for the enhanced midrange box in post 1.
I do have a pair of ESS Heil Transformers, somewhere....
Quote:
Conclusions
The ESS Heil Air Motion Transformer is in a wholly different league from the soft domes that plague most commercial loudspeakers. If the best soft domes are a performance worthy of a great amateur Sunday League side, the ESS AMT is in the European Champions League. This does not means it is absolutely the best treble transducer ever made, at this level, because such a thing does not exist. The ESS Heil Air Motion Transformer is in the top drawer with the horn loaded Decca London Ribbon, the direct radiating Apogee ribbons the Quad ESL57 treble panel, the Focal TDS, lightweight compression drivers and horns like the B&C DE-400TN-8 and the classic Lansing brothers' (James B and Altec). Indeed, the AMT achieves a clarity of transient response unequal elsewhere.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [SIZE=-1] Music
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Not 45 years ago. I used them up until the COVID shutdown. This is typical for line-array boxes, 2X8" woofer with a horn in the middle. Sometimes 2x10", depends on the size and power of the array. Have a look at EV, JBL, Renkus-Heinz, Meyer Sound, D&B, L Acoustic, etc.
And you'll have to define " midrange driver". For me that would be the range of about 200-5000Hz. A range that could be covered by a single driver. That might shift up or down depending in the driver.
Pano...thnaks...the point of the midrange cabinet with the 10" speaker has morphed into
a 10" mid speaker with a mid B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Drive beside it for the best of
the character of the two , both with potentiometer to bring one forward or back in the mix of the two...until the mid sweet spot is reached which may change in time...and adjusted each..in time ....not 45 years later in your case....or a social distancing dating issue...due to
a "headache " ......lol.
a 10" mid speaker with a mid B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Drive beside it for the best of
the character of the two , both with potentiometer to bring one forward or back in the mix of the two...until the mid sweet spot is reached which may change in time...and adjusted each..in time ....not 45 years later in your case....or a social distancing dating issue...due to
a "headache " ......lol.
PANO
And you'll have to define " midrange driver". For me that would be the range of about 200-5000Hz. A range that could be covered by a single driver. That might shift up or down depending in the driver.[/QUOTE]
JBL 2225H 15" woofer 25hz to 2000hz rec.cross 1500hz might change woofer not sure..
Will use JBL 2123H .....10"
Power Capacity1: 250 W continuous pink noise Sensitivity2: 101 dB SPL, 1 W, 1 m Frequency Range: 80 Hz-6 kHz
Highest Crossover Frequency : 3 kHz / Enclosure Volume: 7-14 I (¼-½ ft3)
Poss. with the:new I think will have to check
MIDRANGE
Comparison with old D250Ph-s with the new D270Ph-S improved performance.
Designed to reproduce the all-important vocal range with authority! This mid-range compression driver and horn is a great choice for high power (PA) Systems . combo for vocal reinforcement on 3 way systems.
GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Exit Throat Diameter 1″ (25.4 mm) Nominal impedance 8 Ohms Rated AES Power Handling (RMS) 75 Watts Program Power 150 Watts Sensitivity 2.00V at 1m 107.5 dB Recommended Hi-Pass Crossover** **For Full Power Handling 500 Hz** **12db Per Octave Crossover Frequency Response at -10dB 400 – 8,000 Hz Voice Coil Diameter 2″ (50 mm) Voice Coil Wire Copper Voice Coil Former Material Kapton Diaphragm Material Phenolic resin Flux Density 1.10 T Magnet MaterialFerrite
OR THIS MIDRANGE DRIVER
PRV Audio D290Py-B polyimide 1"
• Power handling: 90 watts RMS with recommended crossover of 1,500 Hz, 12 dB/octave slope • Minimum recommended crossover point: 1,500 Hz • VCdia: 1.75" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Frequency response: 900-18,000 Hz • SPL: 108.5 dB 2.83V/1m • Dimensions: 4.68" diameter x 2.5" depth • Bolt thread and pattern: M6 x 2 (spaced at 3"), M6 x 3 (spaced at 2.4") • Net weight: 4.7 lbs.
And you'll have to define " midrange driver". For me that would be the range of about 200-5000Hz. A range that could be covered by a single driver. That might shift up or down depending in the driver.[/QUOTE]
JBL 2225H 15" woofer 25hz to 2000hz rec.cross 1500hz might change woofer not sure..
Will use JBL 2123H .....10"
Power Capacity1: 250 W continuous pink noise Sensitivity2: 101 dB SPL, 1 W, 1 m Frequency Range: 80 Hz-6 kHz
Highest Crossover Frequency : 3 kHz / Enclosure Volume: 7-14 I (¼-½ ft3)
Poss. with the:new I think will have to check
MIDRANGE
Comparison with old D250Ph-s with the new D270Ph-S improved performance.
Designed to reproduce the all-important vocal range with authority! This mid-range compression driver and horn is a great choice for high power (PA) Systems . combo for vocal reinforcement on 3 way systems.
GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Exit Throat Diameter 1″ (25.4 mm) Nominal impedance 8 Ohms Rated AES Power Handling (RMS) 75 Watts Program Power 150 Watts Sensitivity 2.00V at 1m 107.5 dB Recommended Hi-Pass Crossover** **For Full Power Handling 500 Hz** **12db Per Octave Crossover Frequency Response at -10dB 400 – 8,000 Hz Voice Coil Diameter 2″ (50 mm) Voice Coil Wire Copper Voice Coil Former Material Kapton Diaphragm Material Phenolic resin Flux Density 1.10 T Magnet MaterialFerrite
OR THIS MIDRANGE DRIVER
PRV Audio D290Py-B polyimide 1"
• Power handling: 90 watts RMS with recommended crossover of 1,500 Hz, 12 dB/octave slope • Minimum recommended crossover point: 1,500 Hz • VCdia: 1.75" • Impedance: 8 ohms • Frequency response: 900-18,000 Hz • SPL: 108.5 dB 2.83V/1m • Dimensions: 4.68" diameter x 2.5" depth • Bolt thread and pattern: M6 x 2 (spaced at 3"), M6 x 3 (spaced at 2.4") • Net weight: 4.7 lbs.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.