vilding, congrats on the project.
I am just a newb in research mode, but I can't find anyone saying anything bad about the 6" paper satori. Subjective comments usually say they are musical- suited for orchestra. I am interested in the textreme version that will hit the streets in a month.
@oldspkrguy Are you digging your Satoris? Do you regret not going a size up?
The SB12CACS25-4 keeps telling me it wants to be between the tweeter and the woofer. Is that too much? Is the downside of a 3way that it takes more distance to integrate?
The kairos has a time aligned baffle? Does that make the speakers best for on-axis listening on not really for off-axis?
@fishball79 Any Be domes in there for comparison? I wonder if they are worth it. Did you like the Ara?
I am just a newb in research mode, but I can't find anyone saying anything bad about the 6" paper satori. Subjective comments usually say they are musical- suited for orchestra. I am interested in the textreme version that will hit the streets in a month.
@oldspkrguy Are you digging your Satoris? Do you regret not going a size up?
The SB12CACS25-4 keeps telling me it wants to be between the tweeter and the woofer. Is that too much? Is the downside of a 3way that it takes more distance to integrate?
The kairos has a time aligned baffle? Does that make the speakers best for on-axis listening on not really for off-axis?
@fishball79 Any Be domes in there for comparison? I wonder if they are worth it. Did you like the Ara?
Madisound says the TexTremes will be in stock sometime in July for those of us in US and Canada. Solen is also showing them. Based on some European sites and Asian sites; I expect these will enter the marked priced QUITE HIGHER than the other Satoris (at least initially).
Right now; I am using the Satori MR mid and the Mark Audio Pluvia 7PHD TOGETHER! (see my thread 3 1/2 way with sub...). Great combination; very unusual I realize and not for everyone obviously! I have put away the Satori MW 16 (for now) and am testing a SB29... for woofer duties. It is not as good as a Satori at bringing out the finer details but it does hit hard, strong and low! I'm strongly thinking now to go with the Satori 9 1/2 inch in this same box instead of the SB29....This is idea now on temporary hold however...
I don't think you can go wrong with any SB driver; especially the Satori line. For the money; they out perform most other offerings within that same category (NOT always obviously but they do have the same heritage as some Scan Speak drivers as some of the SB Engineers used to work at SS). I consider the Satoris a "poor man's" SS Illuminator; very similar design and priced much lower.
That may not answer your exact question. As I already said; overall and generally I much prefer a 3-way over a 2-way. Sure to fire up some heated discussions!!!
In what configuration do you use satori and cac?
Thanks for your recommendations but I will stick to the plan for 2 way with 6 inch or even 5inch. The troels project that you suggest will cost three times more than those posted in my first post. Also because I am from Greece buying from selah is not an option. Looking for open source projects.
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@dwk123 the high crossover frequency is also my concern, specially with the cac driver. The satori are known for the excellent mid reproduction so it could be sound good, also they have smaller cone area than other 6inch drivers.
I was actually just giving options and places to look for ideas. I'm all about saving money. I tried the CAC and Satori both as 2-ways in the same box with the same tweeter. Slightly different X/O components but both crossed at the same frequency. For my tastes; I like the sound of the Satori better in the 6 inch size. Others prefer the CAC over the Satori. I would have no issues doing a CAC 3-way; but for a 2-way; the Satori is my go to choice.
Have you read about the "Kairos" kit?
https://meniscus.lightningbasehosted.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kairos-Write-up.pdf
See if the above will open; if not, go to Meniscus Audio and search on kits
You could also search for WTW kits using 2 of the smaller Satoris per side (MW13P...). (Troels has a lot of SB only DIY designs; take another look just for ideas; maybe the not so expensive ones).
Troels is great, for sure he knows what is doing!
I ve seen almost everything from his site! Most of the sb projects are sold in kits from Jantzen which is a problem making them more expensive.
The one that I really liked and I already have seas 29tff is the seas curv. He speaks with very good words for curv value.
SEAS CURV
But in the other hand u16 the curv midbass has some distortion break up according to Goran at audio excite.
www.audioexcite.com >> SEAS H1520 U16RCY/P
I ve seen almost everything from his site! Most of the sb projects are sold in kits from Jantzen which is a problem making them more expensive.
The one that I really liked and I already have seas 29tff is the seas curv. He speaks with very good words for curv value.
SEAS CURV
But in the other hand u16 the curv midbass has some distortion break up according to Goran at audio excite.
www.audioexcite.com >> SEAS H1520 U16RCY/P
Yes, Troels DOES know what he is doing! He and I think alike in many respects as to what does and what does NOT matter the most for the highest possible performance in any given price range. I have often wanted to try the U16 but read the same as above. Maybe if you did a WTW with 2 U16's per side; midrange would improve and distortion would go way down.
He protects his crossover designs (many photos show the capacitors with the values marked out). I understand the reasons behind this; he does use a lot of Jantzen capacitors so when you get the kit plans; I'm sure that helps pay "advertising", etc. Some of his designs are open source and the values of all components are published so you could buy the piece parts from anyone (and not be stuck with one supplier).
Rick Craig at Selah Audio also knows what he is doing. I have traded e mails with him and Troels both along with several other well known designers. So even if it is cost prohibitive to get DIY kits from Selah (outside of USA or Canada); you can certainly get some very good ideas on high performance DIY designs. [Rarely do I EVER copy a design; I like doing my own thing. I am a retired Engineer, Technician and former musician. I have enough knowledge to wing it on my own so to speak but the main thing is; because I AM retired; I have plenty of time to experiment and try many different things.]
I have had very good experience with the SB17CAC35-4 and the SB26CDC tweeter. I like the Bromo design, and I would not be worried about the 3 kHz crossover. It is true that the 6 inch CAC driver (like any 6 inch driver) starts to increase its directivity from 2k to 3k, but the effect on the finished system will be subtle. If you were striving for the maximum possible sound quality, this sort of thing starts to matter... along with minimizing all cabinet signature, minimizing diffraction, minimizing harmonic distortion and FM/intermodulation distortion... in other words, a 2 kHz crossover would be nice to have, but it is not a deal breaker.
That is a very realistic goal, and most of the kits you and others have mentioned will achieve the goal of being better... as I said, I like the Bromo kit.
That is a very realistic goal, and most of the kits you and others have mentioned will achieve the goal of being better... as I said, I like the Bromo kit.
Yes; that is best especially when starting out. I was just making a point about other possible options. You can get ideas from others then modify accordingly. I like reading what others have to say about certain drivers, certain designs, etc. Verifiable testing is one thing, people's opinions are another thing all together. Not everyone likes the same "sounds"; not everyone believes the same things that are important (or not). Fun hobby for me regardless of where the ideas originate!
Best of luck!
The Jurko uses the more expensive, and better performing Satori TW29RN-4 tweeter. N=NdFeB magnet
The Jurko uses the higher efficiency 4-ohm MW16P-4.
The Jurko uses a slanted front baffle and acoustical LR2 slope 2kHz crossovers designed for good time and phase performance.
SO, the Jurko has the potential to produce great Stand-Mounted Satori 6"+1" performance.
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Satori TW29RN-4 tweeter FEATURES
-Non-resonant diaphragm design for minimum high frequency break-up
-Two part aluminum faceplate with integrated mechanical decoupling
-Dual balanced compression chambers for improved dynamics
-Dual copper caps for absolute minimum voice coil inductance and minimum phase shift
-High saturation neodymium motor system with T-shaped pole piece for lower distortion
-Non-reflective cast aluminum chamber with optimized damping for improved dynamics
-Shallow flow optimized magnet structure for optimum coupling to rear chamber
-CCAW voice coil for low moving mass
-Long life silver lead wires
-Low resonance frequency for extended range
========similar cost========
A good 3-way floor standing design, even with lower cost SB26ADC-4 tweeter + SB17NAC35-4 sealed midrange + two ported SB23NAC45-8 woofers will produce a more complete soundstage than a Stand-Mount Satori 6"+1". That's why a 10" - 12" woofer was designed for Kairos. Your Satori 6"+1" build plans should include adding a future woofer.
The Jurko uses the higher efficiency 4-ohm MW16P-4.
The Jurko uses a slanted front baffle and acoustical LR2 slope 2kHz crossovers designed for good time and phase performance.
SO, the Jurko has the potential to produce great Stand-Mounted Satori 6"+1" performance.
====
Satori TW29RN-4 tweeter FEATURES
-Non-resonant diaphragm design for minimum high frequency break-up
-Two part aluminum faceplate with integrated mechanical decoupling
-Dual balanced compression chambers for improved dynamics
-Dual copper caps for absolute minimum voice coil inductance and minimum phase shift
-High saturation neodymium motor system with T-shaped pole piece for lower distortion
-Non-reflective cast aluminum chamber with optimized damping for improved dynamics
-Shallow flow optimized magnet structure for optimum coupling to rear chamber
-CCAW voice coil for low moving mass
-Long life silver lead wires
-Low resonance frequency for extended range
========similar cost========
A good 3-way floor standing design, even with lower cost SB26ADC-4 tweeter + SB17NAC35-4 sealed midrange + two ported SB23NAC45-8 woofers will produce a more complete soundstage than a Stand-Mount Satori 6"+1". That's why a 10" - 12" woofer was designed for Kairos. Your Satori 6"+1" build plans should include adding a future woofer.
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