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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
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Old 30th June 2020, 05:38 AM   #201
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
Quote:
Originally Posted by maty tinman View Post
If they were mine, after a long burn-in and knowing their sound perfectly, I would bypass the tweeter capacitor with a Miflex KPCU-01 0.02uF 600Vdc.

Tweeter resistors, Mills. Those of the woofer, others cheaper but in no case the cheap ones of cement.

The flatness of the audio system phase in the audible frequency band is perhaps more important than I already thought.

Miflex bypass is a yes or yes.

Click the image to open in full size.


PS: speaker wires (out and in), with star quad geometry: Canare 4S11.
0.1uF 600v Miflex KPCU caps are ordered and on the way.
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Old 30th June 2020, 02:11 PM   #202
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maty tinman View Post
The flatness of the audio system phase in the audible frequency band is perhaps more important than I already thought.
DSP achieves this pretty readily, are you using it?

Quote:
PS: speaker wires (out and in), with star quad geometry: Canare 4S11.
Why?
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Old 30th June 2020, 02:28 PM   #203
maty tinman is offline maty tinman  Spain
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I use DSP but for the box or channel, without differentiating between tweeter and woofer. Listen in near field, without being exactly in the center. The right channel has a delay of 0.12 ms and is closer to a side wall (causing a bass boost).

That small delay is enough to improve the sound, I could not believe it!

One of the problems of close listening (in my cheap second system, the one they let me enjoy) is the lack of depth. I have managed to increase it but I would like a little more. Hence my interest in the predominance of the second H2 harmonic, but that is another story.
Attached Images
File Type: png JRMC-DSP-PEQ-KEF-Q100-30062020.png (21.3 KB, 228 views)
File Type: png JRMC-DSP-Convolution-KEF-Q100-30062020.png (21.8 KB, 226 views)
File Type: png KEF-Q100-rePhase-PGEQ-Junio-2020.png (32.4 KB, 223 views)
File Type: png KEF-Q100-rePhase-PPEQ-Junio-2020.png (31.5 KB, 226 views)
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Last edited by maty tinman; 30th June 2020 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 30th June 2020, 02:30 PM   #204
maty tinman is offline maty tinman  Spain
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Audiocircle Star quad, the best geometry to build audio and power cables by maty
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Old 30th June 2020, 04:14 PM   #205
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
I was thinking that the bass gut punch from a TL that I normally would have expected was a bit lacking. I examined the internal structure closely and discovered a few leaks on the divider panels that were not perfectly sealed for air tightness and may have been contributing to a TL pinhole leak. This would compromise the bass extension and sensitivity of the bass. A quarter wave TL with a pinhole leak is sort of like playing low C on a flute with a leaky finger pad. My cabinet maker is new to building speakers so some audio-related points like air tightness were not fully understood by him. But he loves speaker building now and is willing to make it even better - he will remake me a new pair using lock mitered joints on the corners and dado joints on the internal panels. He wants it to be done right and look even better. He will also flush mount front baffle so no end grain is exposed. A much more complex, but sturdy and airtight build. This means that I wonít get the revised speakers back for some time. Maybe 2 weeks is my guess. But it will be a solid speaker. Here is a small example model that he brought to show me how the new joints will be some.

Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide-b8a6e8ac-faeb-4918-a478-8be3c7443a45-jpeg

Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide-8a1066d6-e301-414c-b67a-4b2289113d21-jpeg

Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide-842b6bcb-6c9a-449a-ac14-9348ad7fe79a-jpeg

I hate the wait - but itís going to be worth it I think.
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File Type: jpeg B8A6E8AC-FAEB-4918-A478-8BE3C7443A45.jpeg (487.8 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpeg 8A1066D6-E301-414C-B67A-4B2289113D21.jpeg (426.5 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpeg 842B6BCB-6C9A-449A-AC14-9348AD7FE79A.jpeg (463.2 KB, 223 views)
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Last edited by xrk971; 30th June 2020 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 30th June 2020, 07:01 PM   #206
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maty tinman View Post
None of this explains why the star-quad geometry makes any sort of audible difference for speaker cabling.
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Old 30th June 2020, 07:03 PM   #207
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
I was thinking that the bass gut punch from a TL that I normally would have expected was a bit lacking. I examined the internal structure closely and discovered a few leaks on the divider panels that were not perfectly sealed for air tightness and may have been contributing to a TL pinhole leak.
Is he remaking everything from scratch or replacing some of the back-end pieces? It should be fairly easy to just "caulk" the offending areas with a hefty bead of PL Premium as a fix.
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Old 30th June 2020, 07:13 PM   #208
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Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
There is no way to access the internal joints of the labyrinth passages. He will try to repair/rework the current one later but offered to make a new one from scratch to do it right. I explained that a dado joint is not necessary for airtightness - just more glue or the right type of glue like PL Premium. So we can skip the dado joints to save time but still going with mitered lock joints on external corners.
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Old 30th June 2020, 09:06 PM   #209
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I know you don't like waiting, but good things come to those you wait.....
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Old 30th June 2020, 09:32 PM   #210
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
None of this explains why the star-quad geometry makes any sort of audible difference for speaker cabling.
I actually think cables make a difference - purely from a standpoint of minimizing impedance. If you have an amp with high damping factor, you don't want to use puny 24ga Cat5 to connect your speakers to it. I have found a difference in the bass authority (audible) and measured damping factor from using 16ga copper "speaker wire" (the clear jacketed stuff with real copper stranded core), to 12 ga solid Romex (not practical), and I currently use 12ga ultra flexible stranded premade cables with banana plugs on them $22. These work well and priced very well.

Internal wiring on speakers or amps for power, I now use 252 strands tinned copper ultra flexible silicone jacketed wire. I use it for transistor flying leads or connects between PSU and amp, or amp and speaker connector. There is a noticeable change in impedance that is measurable.

For a 6ft run of speaker cable operating at circa 0.01ohm impedance at the amp and 8ohms at the speaker, not sure it makes a difference.
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Last edited by xrk971; 30th June 2020 at 09:34 PM.
 

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