Just ordered one piece SB23NRXS45-4 on sale for only $69 US (Madisound). At this price; certainly worth a try. Not a Satori but many similar characteristics. I can always use this elsewhere if I don't like it. It would really also like to try the MA A12PW but just think the power handling isn't nearly strong enough. Many people have commented it's really more like 7 inches and not 8 inches. It does have a very good X-max and I like the fact that the cone mass is so very low. I'm sure the transients are very quick and precise which I certainly do crave. Fingers crossed those I am helping out will soon get new employment; they need it and that would free me up again. Come on MW19 TexTreme!!!
Anyone in Europe or Asia see any MW19 TexTreme in stock yet???
Anyone in Europe or Asia see any MW19 TexTreme in stock yet???
Trying something else now. I have gone back to the Satori MR16 midrange. I now have it in parallel with the MA Pluvia 7PHD. This parallel combination is about 2.2 Ohms; obviously WAY too low for most amplifiers. I have two 4.5 Ohm, 20 Watt resistors in parallel to equal 2.25 Ohms. These are in series with the MR16+P7P so the combined impedance the amplifier sees is almost 4.5 Ohms; well within the safe zone. I have these being powered by the Yamaha at the moment. I tried it with the Dayton but the fidelity isn't good enough. The Dayton is more suited to woofer duty only.
Solen has some Vifa/Tymphany/Peerless 8 inch woofers on sale. This is the discontinued model NE225W-08-HS (nominal 8 inch with heat sink). These are designed VERY similar to Satori and SS Illuminator; "wood pulp" cone, neo magnet, etc.
I am very tempted here; the price is about half what the new Satori MW19 TexTreme drivers will probably go for.
I have my Satori MW16 mid-woofers and Aurum Cantus G3Si ribbon tweeters up for sale on the swap shop here if anyone is interested. I wanted to do a system for a friend with these two drivers but instead they are going for the lesser SB17CAC and Vifa Ti horn tweeter combination (way less expensive obviously).
I really love the combination of the MW16 and G3Si together in a closed box 2-way but simply don't need it.
PM me if at all interested; I can provide more details that way.
QUESTION>>>HAVE ANY OF YOU HEARD THE NE225W-08-HS??? What did you think??? It can take 350 W peak, it has a VC slightly over 2 inches. I am hoping this will fill in my needs of higher SPL and power handling in the mid and upper bass. The Wavecor WF223BD and SB23NRX I just tried ARE good woofers for sure BUT, they just can't quite get the resolution and inner detail of the smaller Satori.
Again; the TexTreme MW19 would probably be perfect for me here but the close out price on the Peerless NE225 at Solen is SO VERY TEMPTING!
Not getting any easier here that's for sure!
More later...
Solen has some Vifa/Tymphany/Peerless 8 inch woofers on sale. This is the discontinued model NE225W-08-HS (nominal 8 inch with heat sink). These are designed VERY similar to Satori and SS Illuminator; "wood pulp" cone, neo magnet, etc.
I am very tempted here; the price is about half what the new Satori MW19 TexTreme drivers will probably go for.
I have my Satori MW16 mid-woofers and Aurum Cantus G3Si ribbon tweeters up for sale on the swap shop here if anyone is interested. I wanted to do a system for a friend with these two drivers but instead they are going for the lesser SB17CAC and Vifa Ti horn tweeter combination (way less expensive obviously).
I really love the combination of the MW16 and G3Si together in a closed box 2-way but simply don't need it.
PM me if at all interested; I can provide more details that way.
QUESTION>>>HAVE ANY OF YOU HEARD THE NE225W-08-HS??? What did you think??? It can take 350 W peak, it has a VC slightly over 2 inches. I am hoping this will fill in my needs of higher SPL and power handling in the mid and upper bass. The Wavecor WF223BD and SB23NRX I just tried ARE good woofers for sure BUT, they just can't quite get the resolution and inner detail of the smaller Satori.
Again; the TexTreme MW19 would probably be perfect for me here but the close out price on the Peerless NE225 at Solen is SO VERY TEMPTING!
Not getting any easier here that's for sure!
More later...
WOW! The Yamaha has never sounded better! I knew the combination of MA Pluvia 7PHD and Satori MR16P-4 were really good; now they are GREAT! I had never tried them before in this exact configuration; well, I'm never COMPLETELY satisfied which is why I am always looking for ways to improve things.
I am trying many different types of music on CD now; I do have the equipment rack back in place and so I have re-leveled the turntable. I will put on some LP's later in the day. What is also amazing; my 10+ year old NAD CD player has never sounded this good either!
Right now; I have on Egberto Gismonti "Danca Dos Escravos" which is solo acoustic guitar. This is a ECM German label CD no. ECM 1387 from November, 1988, all DDD.
Tracks 5 and 6 are especially brilliant; the layers of ambiance, hall reverb, string fundamentals and harmonics are extremely rich, full and very well balanced here. TONS of what I like to call "micro-detail".
I have never heard the Accuton C173-6-090 6 1/2 midrange but I doubt seriously if it is any better, if at all, than the MR16/P7P combination. The C173 retails for OVER $1000 US each!
OK, I'm obviously excited once again; that's a good thing for sure; I was beginning to get discouraged because I knew something was missing. I think I have FINALLY reached the best I can do in the mid-band! (at least without spending anymore money).
Now I just have to get that mid and upper bass nailed down and I'll finally be done.
I am trying many different types of music on CD now; I do have the equipment rack back in place and so I have re-leveled the turntable. I will put on some LP's later in the day. What is also amazing; my 10+ year old NAD CD player has never sounded this good either!
Right now; I have on Egberto Gismonti "Danca Dos Escravos" which is solo acoustic guitar. This is a ECM German label CD no. ECM 1387 from November, 1988, all DDD.
Tracks 5 and 6 are especially brilliant; the layers of ambiance, hall reverb, string fundamentals and harmonics are extremely rich, full and very well balanced here. TONS of what I like to call "micro-detail".
I have never heard the Accuton C173-6-090 6 1/2 midrange but I doubt seriously if it is any better, if at all, than the MR16/P7P combination. The C173 retails for OVER $1000 US each!
OK, I'm obviously excited once again; that's a good thing for sure; I was beginning to get discouraged because I knew something was missing. I think I have FINALLY reached the best I can do in the mid-band! (at least without spending anymore money).
Now I just have to get that mid and upper bass nailed down and I'll finally be done.
The Peereless Satori like are said noiser than the SB genuine Satori iir !
Maybe wait to the textrenes and there will be good deals on the 9.5" Satori ?
I know it's contreversal but I had a good enough gain in clarity swapping the cement serie resistors both in tweeter and mid wirh Ayrton Perry winding Supreme resistor from Mundorf... clearer than the Mills that cost less though.
Did you think about PA drivers ? I know you are more on the speakers purchases than trying another cabinet for the driver you need but who knows some 12" or 10" have Fs low enough to ceertainly suit your sub ? Again Faital 12PR350 sealed or some 18Th Sounds as well !
Some Eminence will certainly do as well though I have a doubt about their mid bass low end that dive fastly most of the time....
Maybe wait to the textrenes and there will be good deals on the 9.5" Satori ?
I know it's contreversal but I had a good enough gain in clarity swapping the cement serie resistors both in tweeter and mid wirh Ayrton Perry winding Supreme resistor from Mundorf... clearer than the Mills that cost less though.
Did you think about PA drivers ? I know you are more on the speakers purchases than trying another cabinet for the driver you need but who knows some 12" or 10" have Fs low enough to ceertainly suit your sub ? Again Faital 12PR350 sealed or some 18Th Sounds as well !
Some Eminence will certainly do as well though I have a doubt about their mid bass low end that dive fastly most of the time....
Hi again Diyiggy!
I am happy with the SB29NRX75-6 (these are really 11 inches, not 10 inches). BUT, I only like the low bass; essentially, 40 to 160 Hz or so. Above that, the mid and upper bass are just plain dull and boring; zero excitement if you will. That is where the Satori MW16 sounded better above that but it can't take the power I want to give it. SO; I have started looking at the 7 1/2 to 9 inch nominal woofers. I have tried Wavecor WF223BD and SB23NRXS both now. They are both good woofers but they still lack the resolution or definition I so strongly crave. I was told the current model Satori MW19 was not that good at that either. I'm sure the TexTreme MW19 will be VERY GOOD here...The NE225 with heat sink will handle twice the power of the current Satori MW19, it also has a bigger VC, etc.
I DID look at "bass guitar" drivers in this same size already; I think I would rather try the NE225 or wait for the TexTreme MW19; still up in the air what my next move is...
I am happy with the SB29NRX75-6 (these are really 11 inches, not 10 inches). BUT, I only like the low bass; essentially, 40 to 160 Hz or so. Above that, the mid and upper bass are just plain dull and boring; zero excitement if you will. That is where the Satori MW16 sounded better above that but it can't take the power I want to give it. SO; I have started looking at the 7 1/2 to 9 inch nominal woofers. I have tried Wavecor WF223BD and SB23NRXS both now. They are both good woofers but they still lack the resolution or definition I so strongly crave. I was told the current model Satori MW19 was not that good at that either. I'm sure the TexTreme MW19 will be VERY GOOD here...The NE225 with heat sink will handle twice the power of the current Satori MW19, it also has a bigger VC, etc.
I DID look at "bass guitar" drivers in this same size already; I think I would rather try the NE225 or wait for the TexTreme MW19; still up in the air what my next move is...
Miles Davis. I always thought the opening measures on "Kind of Blue" that he hadn't emptied out his spit valve. I now know this is not the case. The trumpet bell was simply too close to the microphone! This is the song "So What". Yes, the resolution in the mid-band is now true world class!
I will not share my EXACT crossover details because; in the present political climate in the USA; I could very possibly lose my Social Security and/or MediCare health insurance. If this were the case; I need a fall back plan. The only thing I can do is try to sell my designs so I will hold my crossover designs as "private" ONLY. Hey; many other famous designers do this already; why should I be any different than they are? Again; I have been doing speaker design BEFORE I could even drive a car.
If you want some very specific and personal advice; PM me and I will help out where I can. I need to hold on to what I do best; just in case...
I will not share my EXACT crossover details because; in the present political climate in the USA; I could very possibly lose my Social Security and/or MediCare health insurance. If this were the case; I need a fall back plan. The only thing I can do is try to sell my designs so I will hold my crossover designs as "private" ONLY. Hey; many other famous designers do this already; why should I be any different than they are? Again; I have been doing speaker design BEFORE I could even drive a car.
If you want some very specific and personal advice; PM me and I will help out where I can. I need to hold on to what I do best; just in case...
I had thought about similar but I only want 8 inch nominal here now. If I were to start all over; I would have probably chosen the Peerless NE265 nominal 10 inch. It would meet the 4 inch FR in frequency much better than my SB29. I didn't know about the NE265 at first. The SB29 does GREAT from 40 to 160 Hz; very strong but real sounding bass. It has a 3 inch VC and I am getting an f3 of 37 Hz in a 33 liter closed box with Aperiodic Vent. Hard to beat the performance in this low bass range I think
I now have two pieces of the Peerless NE225W-08-HS. I think THIS is could be THE answer I was looking for all along!?? They are designed and built VERY similar to Satori and Illuminator (should be no surprise really). My test box is about 17.4 liters gross [closed] (not subtracting the internal driver volume). The box is small enough I didn't feel the need for any internal bracing. All internal walls (except driver baffle) are 100% covered with felt composite dampening. I have about 50% poly' fill/stuffing. Directly behind the woofer; I have one of my 4 inch foam pyramid sections (between the driver and the poly' fill). This is about 2 inches from the back of the magnet assembly; I don't like to have ANY material right up against any driver component.
I am doing my initial testing full range; zero X/O. The SB23 by comparison sounds like a woofer only. The WF223BD sounds like a larger mid-bass in comparison. The NE225 sounds like a large full range almost; way more articulation and "prescense" in the mid and upper bass; well into almost the entire mid-band even.
Sometimes we like to use the term "bass speed". I would say this certainly qualifies. Translation: transients are very quick and precise; even and very well balanced throughout the full bass spectrum; low, mid and upper bass all!
Next on the list is another Crown amp for sure....
More later...
I am doing my initial testing full range; zero X/O. The SB23 by comparison sounds like a woofer only. The WF223BD sounds like a larger mid-bass in comparison. The NE225 sounds like a large full range almost; way more articulation and "prescense" in the mid and upper bass; well into almost the entire mid-band even.
Sometimes we like to use the term "bass speed". I would say this certainly qualifies. Translation: transients are very quick and precise; even and very well balanced throughout the full bass spectrum; low, mid and upper bass all!
Next on the list is another Crown amp for sure....
More later...
NE225W-08-HS - Tymphany
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
(sadly, this model is discontinued; that is a real shame since they didn't replace it a newer or equivalent version)
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/8in-SB23NRXS45-4.pdf
WF223BD01_02
(I have the -01, the 4 Ohm version)
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
(sadly, this model is discontinued; that is a real shame since they didn't replace it a newer or equivalent version)
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/8in-SB23NRXS45-4.pdf
WF223BD01_02
(I have the -01, the 4 Ohm version)
So far, the NE225 "sound quality" is surpassing any other 8 inch nominal driver I have ever heard. I think one could almost run this full range without any crossover. I have not yet tried any female singing voice be it jazz, opera or other. I have not yet tried any solo violin recordings either. Of course; I will band limit this about 200 to somewhere between 600 to 800 Hz as planned. 1st order LP and HP should not be an issue at all.
Solo piano is very real; jazz trumpet and tenor sax are also very real. Acoustic and electric bass...same thing again...
Solo piano is very real; jazz trumpet and tenor sax are also very real. Acoustic and electric bass...same thing again...
Some good news; because the new NE225 is 8 Ohm and the SB29 is 6 Ohm; when you factor in the added impedance due to the passive X/O's; they can both be connected to the Crown amplifier because the minimum impedance will never go below 4 Ohms. I am doing that now but with just one channel. I'm waiting on the upstairs neighbor to take their dog for a walk before I hit it with some serious power. She works from home these days and needs to concentrate. She and hubby are totally cool with louder music though; they are both musicians as I once was so that's a very good thing for sure!
More later...
More later...
I finally figured out how to make all of this fit into my room. The sub will go behind the TV stand; eventually I will add a second sub driver but the box is already made and can take 1 or 2 drivers. Not ideal but it is only the zeroth octave (16 to 32 Hz). The SB29 "towers" will have to lay down on their sides (horizontal on the floor). I will then build new boxes for my NE225 woofers as a mini tower. These I can then place on top of the SB29 boxes. I will custom build these so that I can get the combination Satori MR16+MA P7PHD and the Fostex T90A at the correct height (placed on top of the NE225 boxes) for listening while seated. I decided during this long and drawn out adventure I needed to invest in more tools; power and hand both. I now have a good basic set of Li Ion battery powered tools. I will still have the lumber store pre-cut the materials to no more than 4 feet in length. Anything larger than 2 ft X 4 ft. is not manageable for me, my house, etc. I usually buy MDF shelf board which is conveniently 12 inches nominal width; good enough for 10 inch or smaller woofer diameters and MUCH easier to transport, store and manage.
more later...
more later...
Tweaking and playing with the HP 1st order passive X/O on the NE225. Playing all by itself. Anyone that says there is no difference in the sound of one capacitor over the other is WRONG...It is sometimes subtle, sometimes VERY obvious! Clip leads are an experimenter's best friend here for sure. Even what some might consider an insignificant change makes a HUGE difference to people like me! Accuracy and micro-detail are what separates the good from the great IMO.
Time to hit it with more power; almost 5PM here Friday afternoon so the neighbor is done working from home for the evening...YAY!!! more SPL coming right up!
Time to hit it with more power; almost 5PM here Friday afternoon so the neighbor is done working from home for the evening...YAY!!! more SPL coming right up!
The NE225 isn't showing any signs of strain or stress; I'm giving it peaks well in excess of 125 W, maybe more than 150 W. The smaller Satori started distorting not much above 50 W peaks. The NE225 does just about everything as good as the MW16; good enough so that I will stop looking for something better. Since the MR16 and P7P are in parallel and share the same X/O; I will call this a 4-way now. The sub does 14 to 34 Hz; the SB29 above that to about 225 Hz. The NE225 above that to about 650 Hz. The MR16 and P7P above that; now with a 2nd order low pass. The T90A meets up with the MR16+P7P starting above 6 KHz even though the electrical LP X/O of the high mids is an octave below that. (This is due to the rising high end of the MR16).
Now hitting both channels; the NE225 and SB29 only; with passive X/O. Well in EXCESS of 200 Watts peak, very close to 250 Watts peak. ZERO distortion! Again; I say I can do passive X/O's as good as possible; active has advantages but when you have OVER 50 years experience like I do' I call BS on ANYONE that just passes this off!
Taking a break because I had a very bad fall; nothing broken but mobility very limited. So, to pass the time; I am trying my Aurum Cantus G3Si ribbon tweeters with the Peerless NE225W08-HS in a 2-way. Not bad at all actually! Normally, I don't go in for 2-ways; especially with a MW as big as 8+ inches but this DOES work well. I have the -3 dB 1st order HP on the G3Si at 10 KHz (for my old ears). It meets up with the NE225 nicely at about 1600 or so (1st order on the NE225 at about 800 Hz). I'm basing this on data sheets FR/SPL and impedance plots ONLY (no measuring). I am surprised at how well it does actually. Well, the HS version is discontinued but the regular NE225 can still be had in 4 Ohm and 8 Ohm both (though not stocked by everyone anymore). It doesn't sound nearly as good as the Satori MW16 with the same AC ribbon; that should not surprise many though. It is just a quick experiment to pass the time; I haven't the energy or coordination to do anything else right now; healing time is probably still another 2 or 3 weeks out before I can do serious work again...
New idea; I was going to sell the SB29s but now I have other plans. If I get a new Crown amp with built in DSP; I could do a band pass on the SB29s as low woofers only. Then; I plan on getting 2 more of the Peerless NE225 W 08 HS. @ of these per side in parallel for 4 ohms powered by my existing Crown. This way; I will have total control of deep bass, low bass, mid and upper bass, low and upper mids and treble. Still NOT all active but one step closer. The subwoofer plate amp and the new Crown have active filters; this is most important in the bass frequencies; not just to tweak the room and bass inter-actions but also passives in the lowest octaves are just a compromise at best. This may still be a few months off but GF and daughter both having more income these days frees me up for more toys!