Go to Preferences - Soundcard tab. The Sweep Level is probably something like -11. Set it to -9 or something like that then do another SPL test.
You also have Level right on the Make a Measurement page.
Last edited:
Well, that helped some. I have the level set to max now which is -3 dBf? The M Audio interface is showing plenty of input level from the microphone. But, the sweep still says way less level than expected; it may be the M Audio software. I am using the RealTek internal card headphones output jack to feed the amplifier input. I have tried setting the RealTek output to max; setting the M Audio output to max, etc. The REW level shows no higher than -54 dB even with the mic only one inch from my woofer under test. I have the gain on the amp all the way up. I am sweeping from 30Hz to 600Hz only just for the woofer only at this point. I don't know what my actual SPL into the room is but it should be well into the high 90's dB. This amp can do 75 Watts into 4 Ohms per channel; my SB 29...is approximately 6 Ohms and 88 dB sensitivity. Let's say the amp can deliver 50 Watts into 6 Ohms. I haven't tried to do the math but there is certainly plenty enough SPL for a good measurement. I need to find someone with M Audio 192/4 experience that also knows REW well. I signed up for the M Audio forum for Q&A with users but haven't gotten any feedback yet. Maybe the next step is to contact the applications Engineers?
Thanks again; any further thoughts??? ideas???
Go back to the SPL meter option and choose Calibrate with "Use REW speaker cal signal. When you say OK and it starts making noise boost the number up above the SPL you think you hear. That will put the spl up higher on the chart.
The other thing is your mic set to maximum in Windows if that is what you are using. You are using the jacks out of the pc right?
Last edited:
OK, again thanks! I am using the built in sound card headphones output jack to feed the amp, actually, it goes to another amp MP input then line out to line in. The MP input is supposed to be level and impedance matched to allow for modern electronics headphone levels...
Another thought is that the M Audio has monitor outputs. 2 analog inputs; 2 analog outputs. Line 1 is Microphone or guitar level; a "Combo" jack that accepts both XLR and 1/4 inch mono. Line 2 input is 1/4 inch only, guitar level.
If I take the line 1 mic. input and try to use the line 1 output; I was worried about feedback but maybe the software and hardware can some how sort that out? There is a control knob on the M Audio for direct vs USB for latency. This is for musicians trying to do mic plus guitar or keyboard live mix and want to do real time monitor. The control varies the latency delay essentially; this is dependent in part on the PC buffer size and speed as to latency delay effects, etc. I do not care about real time what so ever...
Still need to try customer support and see if I can get a real live applications Engineer and not some idiot robot sales bozo that doesn't know an electron from a brass knob...ha ha ha...good luck with THAT these days!!!
I need to do some more investigating; I'm not sure how the M Audio actually works with REW. I notice in REW I can choose input and output options, L, R, L+R, etc. I wonder if I can make the M Audio the output and input device both? In other words, can REW send the output signal to the M Audio via USB then I take either line 1 or line 2 output to feed the amplifier??? This would then by-pass the internal sound card as the output device. The M Audio has a lot of versatility; I just haven't tried every possible combination yet. I was really hoping someone on their forum was trying to do the same thing as me and knew what the best options worked...i. e. what REW settings and what M Audio features and settings will give me the results I'm looking for. I'm sure it's simple; I just haven't gotten the magic combination worked out yet.
Thanks again! It's late; I'll try some other things tomorrow...
Cheers!
PS
I tried to change the SPL setting to match; I tried several different SPL level numbers but it wouldn't accept my chosen settings. I am obviously still missing something here.
Thanks again! It's late; I'll try some other things tomorrow...
Cheers!
PS
I tried to change the SPL setting to match; I tried several different SPL level numbers but it wouldn't accept my chosen settings. I am obviously still missing something here.
When you get it all going you'll find you're room controls a lot.
You get that any where in the chain including Wdoze can be involved and are playing to find the balance. I end up having to turn my preamp down if I'm testing. You seem to have the idea. I went USB connection route and it's worked well.
The SPL settings calibration control the numbers being shown and won't actually affect level output. They have max settings so if you put something in over the max it isn't accepted. Click on another field before saying okay and that should show you if things worked out okay or not. If your changes disappear they are over max/min probably.
OK, thanks! I keep saying this but in the good old days I could take an entire room full of test equipment and use each and every piece like a conductor of an orchestra or something. Almost 50 years as a Technician and Engineer and these "new fangled things have me confounded"...ha ha ha...old timers speak...
YEP! I'm looking forward to my new toys!
AND, there are musician family and friends that want to borrow the M Audio and use the free software that comes with it for recording their own songs!
Cheers!
XLi 1500 | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers
Lost my mind? OR...What the heck; let's see what these things can do with REAL power!!!
The Dayton APA 150 just can't do justice to the SB 29's; they need some SERIOUS power to wake them up and shine; so; here we go!
I have used Crown amps both professionally and even in a lab environment under extreme conditions. If they are ANYTHING like the Crown amps of old; they will be TRUE high fidelity AND serious output BOTH...what a crazy and addicting hobby this truly is!!!
Lost my mind? OR...What the heck; let's see what these things can do with REAL power!!!
The Dayton APA 150 just can't do justice to the SB 29's; they need some SERIOUS power to wake them up and shine; so; here we go!
I have used Crown amps both professionally and even in a lab environment under extreme conditions. If they are ANYTHING like the Crown amps of old; they will be TRUE high fidelity AND serious output BOTH...what a crazy and addicting hobby this truly is!!!
Well, Totally unexpected but here we go! The Satori MW16P-4 in about 15 liters tuned to about 37 Hz vented sounds SO MUCH BETTER than the SB29NRX75-6 in about 33 liters closed! This is with the new Crown Amplifier; model XLi1500; fresh out of the box. I am feeding the amp directly from an older but very trusted NAD CD player with one of my most well known and familiar CDs. The Satori sounds like music; the SB29 sounds congested and boring with MUCH less resolution, articulation, definition, nuance, etc. I DID screw up ROYALLY! Even the lowest notes below 80 Hz sound better on the Satoris! OK, experiment over; I'll see if I can sell the SB29's slightly used and broken in. Maybe my bass playing brother can use them or one of his bass playing buddies.
Next step??? Maybe the 7 1/2 inch Satori in a vented box or the 9 1/2 Satori in my same closed box? I haven't done the math yet but maybe, just maybe, a 7 1/2 in Satori would work vented in my existing box!
Anybody out there want some very slightly used and broken in SB29's??? Great for rock and roll slam and wham bass; jazz, classical, anything more complex than simple rock and roll the Satoris are THE way to go...PM me; I'm serious; I do NOT want these SB 29's!!! Make me a deal...
Next step??? Maybe the 7 1/2 inch Satori in a vented box or the 9 1/2 Satori in my same closed box? I haven't done the math yet but maybe, just maybe, a 7 1/2 in Satori would work vented in my existing box!
Anybody out there want some very slightly used and broken in SB29's??? Great for rock and roll slam and wham bass; jazz, classical, anything more complex than simple rock and roll the Satoris are THE way to go...PM me; I'm serious; I do NOT want these SB 29's!!! Make me a deal...
When you will will measure with the new mic, I'm looking forward to know about the -f3 and -f6 in the room... maybe an overlapp with a sub... or not, according the result in the room ?! If REW too much hassle for a rapid start, perhaps Arta may be simplier ? delay setuped at 5 ms for 50" distance on axis and same off axis at listening position? But for the bass: more tricky to measure
.... if you have a big quite garden or yield around: easier perhaps for the bass ?!
Ah the 9.1/2 Satori with the DA32TX, cut-off 1500 hz , or the same with the 6" or 7" could be a good surprise... or the sb26-cac . Have you defintly chosed the tweeter ? How do you test the sound at ears ? wih a tweeter or raw ?
Now the size mismatch is maybe too big for a goodXO overlaping with a 8" or the 9" ? and a 1".1/4 ? Some polarmap or off axis measurment should be on the net like the link given by ScottG in the cheap but good tweeters thread.
.... if you have a big quite garden or yield around: easier perhaps for the bass ?!Ah the 9.1/2 Satori with the DA32TX, cut-off 1500 hz , or the same with the 6" or 7" could be a good surprise... or the sb26-cac . Have you defintly chosed the tweeter ? How do you test the sound at ears ? wih a tweeter or raw ?
Now the size mismatch is maybe too big for a goodXO overlaping with a 8" or the 9" ? and a 1".1/4 ? Some polarmap or off axis measurment should be on the net like the link given by ScottG in the cheap but good tweeters thread.
Last edited:
Good news! I think I can make either 9 1/2 Satori work in my box with modifications vented! I trust Troels opinions above all others because he and I think ALIKE! The other good news; I am hearing things out of the Satori MW 16....by the way; I have the 4 Ohm WHITE cone version. If you look VERY carefully; you will notice some minor differences between the white cone and standard cone. The white cone, 4 Ohm works VERY well in 15 liters vented; I think the standard cones need a slightly bigger box. My new Crown amp; while made in China; is not only the most POWERFUL amp I've ever used in a home stereo system; right now; I think it is also the most musical as well. I am hearing things on a very well recorded CD from the Crown and Satori I have NEVER heard before, ever! Marantz, Yamaha, NAD, etc...the Crown is doing things in the under $350 US price range that should rightly send ALL other amp designers back with their tails between their legs!!! My Yamaha retails for almost $900 US and this Crown at almost a third of the cost is just BLOWING IT OUT OF THE WATER!!!....more later...
EXCEPT, in small venues with 2 in parallel; agree; pro bass units have WAY more power handling and sensitivity. He only does very small venues so these would do WAY better than his current rig and set up...
A little more info. I am now running the Satoris full range; NOT recommended but it is after all an experiment of sorts. The Crown and Satori combination are the new milestone! Yeah; you guys think this old guy can't hear much above 10 KHz so ignore his comments. Well; I did speakers when I was only 12 years old; I'm almost 65...A retired engineer and technician and musician that started before your PARENTS were even born...ha ha ha...well; I may be old but I do have a TON of experience. When I tell you what I think...just listen and learn PLEASE! Musician, Engineer, Technician and a VERY WELL trained ear...I don't need a measurement system for ME; I need it for YOU so you will believe me!...The Crown and Satori are REALLY just MAGIC right now...
Cheers!!!
Cheers!!!
OK, let's get serious. I DO, of course, want to do measurements just like everyone else. But when I heard the obvious differences between the Satori and SB29; I knew THAT comparison didn't need to be confirmed with a measurement. As I said; my room mode does influence the lowest bass.
I am NOT an expert; any of you EXPERTS care to give me some hints here? I do have a shallow dip from about 55 to 65 Hz; not huge but until I can get the measurements going; do you think this could be an artifact of my box shape; a room mode null or something else? The Satori does NOT exhibit this same behavior BUT, it is a totally different box and is located away from the walls and corner. Maybe I just answered my own question? I guess the next logical thing to do is swap room locations to see if the null or depression stays with the SB 29 box regardless of room location or maybe the room location is playing tricks by bouncing back an out of phase signal causing partial cancellation in that small band? Here is why I NEED to measure; all joking aside!
I am NOT an expert; any of you EXPERTS care to give me some hints here? I do have a shallow dip from about 55 to 65 Hz; not huge but until I can get the measurements going; do you think this could be an artifact of my box shape; a room mode null or something else? The Satori does NOT exhibit this same behavior BUT, it is a totally different box and is located away from the walls and corner. Maybe I just answered my own question? I guess the next logical thing to do is swap room locations to see if the null or depression stays with the SB 29 box regardless of room location or maybe the room location is playing tricks by bouncing back an out of phase signal causing partial cancellation in that small band? Here is why I NEED to measure; all joking aside!
When you will will measure with the new mic, I'm looking forward to know about the -f3 and -f6 in the room... maybe an overlapp with a sub... or not, according the result in the room ?! If REW too much hassle for a rapid start, perhaps Arta may be simplier ? delay setuped at 5 ms for 50" distance on axis and same off axis at listening position? But for the bass: more tricky to measure
Ah the 9.1/2 Satori with the DA32TX, cut-off 1500 hz , or the same with the 6" or 7" could be a good surprise... or the sb26-cac . Have you defintly chosed the tweeter ? How do you test the sound at ears ? wih a tweeter or raw ?
Now the size mismatch is maybe too big for a goodXO overlaping with a 8" or the 9" ? and a 1".1/4 ? Some polarmap or off axis measurment should be on the net like the link given by ScottG in the cheap but good tweeters thread.
I will stick with my current mids and super tweeter for THIS system. I was really meaning that the other tweeters I would seriously consider for a different build for someone other than myself. I need extra output from 10 KHz to 15 KHz; starting as early as 8 KHz. I can't hear above 15 KHz at all. Other friends and family sometimes ask for a new set of speakers. The next design I will try one of the tweeters we keep talking about on the other thread.
Cheers!
I just got an e mail back from Crown; I suspected, obvious really. I can't do two woofers in parallel that would dip below 3 or even 2.5 Ohms...NO SURPRISE really...SO; right now; I have the Satori MW16P-4 on one channel and the SB29NRX on the other channel. The combination is actually working very well together. I put a very large inductor on the SB 29 so it is only doing about 40 Hz to 120 Hz, 1st order...NOT measured or confirmed!!! The Satori 6 inch is doing about 40 Hz to well over 4 KHz (no X/O, just an experiment). I wish I could do these both in parallel; that would keep me happy until I can go the next step up in "10 inch" woofers!
Right now; YouTube; "Your's is no Disgrace" by Yes a re-master. I played electric bass on this same tune well over 40 years ago and know EXACTLY what it SHOULD sound like. One of my college buddies had a very high end electric bass and amp combo; this YT sounds quite good; not as good as REAL; but it is a good rock and roll test for me.
SO, if I try to use the SB 29's ONLY just above the subs; and maybe put the Satori MW16P-4 in a closed box; we would then be looking at a 4 1/2 way...NOT usual for sure; I don't care! If I can make it sound like "music" and not speakers; works for me. Minimum phase shifts but also minimum driver frequency overlap at the same time.
If I had another $1000 US or so to spend; it then becomes a "no brainer". Fixed budget; retired; Social Security and retirement pension both but still need to pace myself on budget and constraints...
Keep it coming...
Cheers from middle USA where the heat and humidity and COVID-19 are ALL climbing back up!!!
Right now; YouTube; "Your's is no Disgrace" by Yes a re-master. I played electric bass on this same tune well over 40 years ago and know EXACTLY what it SHOULD sound like. One of my college buddies had a very high end electric bass and amp combo; this YT sounds quite good; not as good as REAL; but it is a good rock and roll test for me.
SO, if I try to use the SB 29's ONLY just above the subs; and maybe put the Satori MW16P-4 in a closed box; we would then be looking at a 4 1/2 way...NOT usual for sure; I don't care! If I can make it sound like "music" and not speakers; works for me. Minimum phase shifts but also minimum driver frequency overlap at the same time.
If I had another $1000 US or so to spend; it then becomes a "no brainer". Fixed budget; retired; Social Security and retirement pension both but still need to pace myself on budget and constraints...
Keep it coming...
Cheers from middle USA where the heat and humidity and COVID-19 are ALL climbing back up!!!