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3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF
3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF
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Old 23rd April 2020, 05:07 PM   #1
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Default 3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF

Hi,
Need your advice please for a LLCP aka Locdown Low Cost Project

I would like to putt the little ScanSpeak 10FF/8424G00 8 ohms neo I have in a not too deep wavguide looking like a Visaton WR148R WG. I plan this last Visaton WG for a tweeter. Loaded in a sealed 0.8 l tube enclosure that coulld be damped to reach artificially one liter load

Targets :

- Give the 10FF 5 to 8 dB gain, i.e. a little more spl max to stay -30 dB H2 at 112/115 dB no to reach the x-max - 112 to 115 dB dynamic peak more than enough. 105-8 db is the max spl at H2 -30 dB iirc. Not sure of the data for the 8 ohms unit though

- matching a 8" or ?? (15") from circa 750/800 Hz -F3 to a tweeter at circa 4 Kz minium + F3 - almost constant directivity in mind as well - passive LR2 max or why not first order allowed by the wave guide gnd (one can dream who knows ) - A 8" subwoof driver seems logical to me (targett price 100-150 USD max), but a bang bang 15" PA for slam chest in the 80/200 area may be fun (Faital 15PR400 ?)

- deep of the wave guide is ideally for a close time/phase weeding with the lower mid-woof driver

- On shelves wave guide (no diy 3D print or CNC hability)

What's your thought about that please ? living in Europe, I'm not sure I can pick up some cool Seos. Should stay cheap, it's a kill bore me to death project.

Cons :

-the bump given by a WG between 700 to ... maybe difficult to manage in passive XO : good for the bafle step but difficult above till the tweeter for a clean mid to treble XO ?
- center to center distance between the mid wave guide & the tweeter wave guide for a 4 K hz XO !



Does such on shelf wave guide exists or may suit ?

With the plain entire suround the SS10F in mvt is 73.5 mm, so I assume a 75 mm/3" apex is all what it needs.

Less apex diameter may be possible with a little front chamber to allow the surround not to touch the apex face plate with some wood diy adaptor perhaps : the inside cone surround beginns at 31 mm from center so 62 mm diameter is the cone diameter with the internal surround edge - 60 cm is the cone diameter without the ruber edge- 62 mm is 2.45".

Many thanks for your inputs

attachment docs : 4 ohms neo MarK 10F measurements + 8 ohms ferrite by Klang measurements not the same but near
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 10F8424HH.pdf (453.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: pdf SS 10F 4424 by MarkK.pdf (1.32 MB, 59 views)
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Last edited by diyiggy; 23rd April 2020 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 24th April 2020, 12:41 PM   #2
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Mark K measurment part II - splitted cause the weight.


Is there really no horn on shelves that could fit these little sized drivers or is the idea so bad ? Or give up the round horn for a tractrix with a smooth flare beginning at the apex then a steep one at the mouth like Iwata's ? (but acoustic center may be ruined due to the deepness of such a horn.



... though I' not against cubes on cubes for each way as the waited speaker from Humblehomemade hifi... it's a low cost project in mind... price of such good horn is often too expensive but some polyer PRV 2.5" ?


Both because the good price and acoustic center distance I think more about wave guides a la Visaton/Monacor... their tweeter WG seems to be made for a weeding with 8" to 10" mid-woof units ? ... Now, how t suit the 3" ScanSpeak 10F 8 ohms to be a 8" or 10" patern driver with a wave guide without having a huge JLMC horn or an Avantguard huge mid horn please ???


Very wrong idea I have or just such horn doesn't exist with a 3" apex eye ??
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Old 24th April 2020, 12:44 PM   #3
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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hummm seems I have to split in twi the part II of Mark measurments pdf... to be followed
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Old 24th April 2020, 01:04 PM   #4
tmuikku is offline tmuikku  Finland
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I think Josepht Crowe has a waveguide / horn for 10f Teal Thiel SS10f mid/tweets but cannot find the images now, try google You might be able to purchase plans or readymade product from Joseph. Also, I remember there have been some experiments / plans for the similar Tymphany TC9fd 3" on the forums, for example here Anyone made a waveguide for the TC9 (or 10F)?

Have fun!
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Old 24th April 2020, 01:07 PM   #5
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyiggy View Post
matching a 8" or ?? (15") from circa 750/800 Hz -F3 to a tweeter at circa 4 Kz
Aren't these both going to be radiating wide.. It sounds as though you require a direct radiator?
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Old 24th April 2020, 02:05 PM   #6
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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Thanks guys to be here, I was thinking to be the last man of Earth wanting to coock hifi with a wok.


Tmuimku, Joseph Crow skills is just incredible, if I have monney for such good work I will jump in it to purchase some stuning devices from this sympathetic guy... halas it's more about to kill cheap the boredom fro thiose days... I'm more looking for a knife than a missile... I should say I'm more looking for a little spoon, should I?


Xrk971 made also an incredible work with the 10F with cheap handmade horn from Yoga foam: just brillant, halas...some people are more gifted than others with hand skill.


AllenB, not sure I understand what you meant.


Maybe because myself I'm not so clear in the description or I mistaked in the phrase? I meant : is the 2.5" ScanSpeak 10F which is good between 750/800 hz to 4 k hz raw on a bafle, could be good as well in wave guide to match easilier any bass unit from 8" (it can already raw but easier if in a WG ?) or /greater bass driver (10" to 15") that could climb till to 750/800 hz to the wave guide (if such exists) ? In order first to give it (the SS 10F) a little extra gain first.

I'm not understanding if you refer to the mid + treble or the mid + bass and which should be raw (not horned)...


Edit : I was thinking to a wave guide not to break the good linear behavior of the 10F as I plan a simple passive, deep horns make the thing more difficult without active EQ but some rare combos developed by brands like JBL 18thSound and so on.



Bamboo plate from Ikea ?????
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SS 10F 4424 by MarkK- part 2.pdf (767.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: pdf SS 10F 4424 by MarkK - part3.pdf (1.22 MB, 14 views)
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Old 24th April 2020, 02:44 PM   #7
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF
OK, to make it clearer I'll suggest some numbers. An 8" driver in a baffle or large box will radiate 90 degrees half angle at 750Hz. A 1" dome tweeter will also radiate at 90 degrees half angle at 4kHz. This means your full-range should be mounted on a baffle as well and have the same directivity over its band.

On the other hand, if you want to change this, maybe specify your own directivity then waveguides may play a part.
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Old 24th April 2020, 04:42 PM   #8
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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thank you AllenB,


baffle step plays no role here ?


I understand from tha answer than whatever the directivity of the mid, it's ok if the polar plot of the lower and upper drivers match the mid around the XO till 90... in a baffle.


But a wave guide if keeping the 90 rule for a good XO matching will change the pass band XO of the mid because it will not radiate 90 degree at 750 hz and 4k hz.


For illustration : if a wave guide make radiate the mid 75 at 750 hz and 75 at 4000 Hz then I should find the bass 8" or more that radiate 75 at 750 hz (so basicly a greater 10" or 12") and same for the tweeter choice (more difficult to find I assume) ?


So if I sumarize : first putt the 2.5" in a wave guide then measure the spl gain vs raw on a bafle. If the extra efficienty gives the needed Xmax spl wished, then measure how it radiate at the XO you want and take the 2 units that polar plot match at those angles around the XO (1 octave around the XO for a LR2 for instance ?) ?


Had I understand you AllenB ? Sorry if I"m a little slow, my english skill doesn't help as well.
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Old 24th April 2020, 10:35 PM   #9
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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3"-75mm-apex diameter wave guide for SS 10FF
What tweeter are you using?
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Old 24th April 2020, 11:15 PM   #10
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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I only have the 10F Scan Speak 8 ohm units. Hence the idea (bad?) to putt it in a WG both for a little spl gain (3 db per WG ?) and start from here. Now I'm not aware if such WG with a 3" apex aperture exists and if the concept is doable. The idea comes from Gedles speaker when looking at them with the mid-bass unit slightly "horned" to match the directivity of the upper waveguide horn...
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