New build planning phase - sound bar - advice needed

[CasperH]

Hi all

New here and I do apologize if I'm in the wrong place.

So I'm working on a soundbar/sound furniture and my very first step is the electronics in this setup.

My need list is:

HDMI arch input from tv
Airplay
Wifi
Room correction.

HDMI input:
HDMI ARC Adapter, ARC Audio Extractor with Digital Optical TOSLINK SPDIF/ Coaxial and Analog 3.5mm L/R Stereo Audio Converter for HDTV Soundbar Speaker Amplifier - Newegg.com
or
Digital interface with HDMI / MHL input to I2S / Coaxial / Optique output - Audiophonics

Thinking this might do the trick

Airplay and Wifi:
WiFi&Bluetooth HiFi Stereo Receiver Board With I2S Up2stream Pro V2

AMP:
TINYSINE TSA7500B 2.1 Amplifier Module Bluetooth TPA3221 aptX 2x100W + 200W - Audiophonics

This might be ok

Room correction:
Any good advice?

Drivers: Looking at some good full-range drivers but am undecided if I should go full range + sub - or mid + tweeter + sub.

The whole idea is to build it into a tv furniture of sorts, and have great movie sound but just as much great sound for music.

This is the first step - how can I achieve what I'm looking for in regards of input from tv, Spotify and process it so I can be sent to drivers.

Please if anyone have the slightest remark for a noob like me, please make a shout out.

I'm moving to our new house in less than a month and the build will hopefully commence there about. Hope to be able to show something that will make other people build something like this as well

 

[Lojzek]

Use this example as a foundation.

 

[Douglas Blake]

Two words of advice ... No Plastic.

Way too much plastic in most sound bars.

 

[ScottG]

Too much work for DIY, with a resulting expenditure that would be way more than a good sound bar on sale.

The DIY route would involve a receiver (not something built into a sound bar) with room correction.

I've done both (..technically I'm still doing the DIY after 3 years now), but my DIY effort is for a dedicated HT with a very large screen.

My 70" TV on the other hand uses a refurbished Samsung HW-R550 which works great for that 70" screen. (..and if I wanted to, I could always purchase the add-on rear speakers.) It also does some DSP correction with the subwoofer (which is primarily where it's really required).

 

[CasperH]

What I want to emulate is this:
Lemus HOME Classic (1500, 1200) – lemus-home

They say it's the best type of flattery

For many years I have planned something like this but never got around to it - and now I can see others have done it, so now I need to act on my old idea.

Could just buy it ... but the wify will never allow me to spend that amount of money on a tv furtinure with sound! So I have to build!

 

[CasperH]

As you might understand, I'm not the most experienced in this field. Dammit.

So I have a couple of really stupid Noob questions - hope any of you have the time to help me

So I want to input some digital signals. Do I need to run it through a DAC before the amp?
At the same time, I would like to add a DSP module, to do some room correction.

My logical sense says that digital input should do through a DAC before DSP and in turn, go to AMP that outputs to speakers.

Is this correct ? Or would a DSP ( for instance: SURE ADAU1701 DSP Module for active filtering compact ) do an analog output for the AMP?

I think I'm looking at this from my computer builders skills, and I fear it does not really translate

 

[Douglas Blake]

So I want to input some digital signals. Do I need to run it through a DAC before the amp?

That depends on your choice of amplifiers.

Class AB amps universally need analog inputs, thus a DAC is required to process digital inputs.

Class D amps come in multiple flavours... Some are "pure digital" (which is horsecrap, because class D is not digital) and have either BlueTooth or various Optical and Coaxial inputs for digital signals. Some use analog inputs in which case a DAC is required. A third group include built in DSP modules.

At the same time, I would like to add a DSP module, to do some room correction.

DSP can be very helpful in some cases. But in an equal number of cases it's either not needed or downright unhelpful. Having it is good... using it might not be and that is going to depend on many factors that I'm sure you will discover as you go along.

If you are using digital signals from your TV, you will need an amplifier module with DSP built in or you will need one with analog inputs and then daisy chain the DAC->DSP->amplifier.

My logical sense says that digital input should do through a DAC before DSP and in turn, go to AMP that outputs to speakers.

This is audio, ain't nothin' logical about it

Actually if you look around you're going to find all sorts of different gear, likely there is a commercial unit that will do your job, you may also find DIY boards ready to package into your project... look far enough and you can find almost any silly thing.

One problem you may run into is that many "Smart TVs" are no longer providing RCA style analog outputs. It's all either BlueTooth or WIFI... you may want to research your options there as well.

I think I'm looking at this from my computer builders skills, and I fear it does not really translate

There is actually a path you can consider from those skills ... Build an HTPC to do all the magical decoding stuff and use a nice amp for the speakers. From the page you linked there might even be enough space to hide the system inside the cabinet.

In the unit thumbnailed below I commonly swap out the DVD player for a huge hard disk, providing storage for about 700 movies and 10,000 songs. From there the HTPC runs the show feeding the TV set, decoding 5.1 or 7.1 audio, managing volume, balance, doing room correction and feeding an amplifier with analog audio. Easy-Peazy...

But I think your first steps in this process should be deciding your physical parameters... how big, how tall, how much weight it needs to support, what speakers will fit, 2 way, 3way, external sub, etc. Trust me, the electronics is going to be a lot easier than those basic decisions.

 

[CasperH]

Hi Douglas

Thanks so much for your time!

My plan is to use a digital receiver board for wifi
WiFi&Bluetooth HiFi Stereo Receiver Board With I2S Up2stream Pro V2

And to connect the TV via HDMI. Would love to have ARC activated, so the sound volume when using the tv/apple tv, would be controlled by what ever device we use ( and not a 3rd one to the amp )

This could be with this one: DYKB HDMI/MHL to IIS I2S Receiver Board Digital Audio I2S Coaxial Fiber HDMI to I2S/IIS HDMI OVER I2S Converter Switch|Replacement Parts & Accessories| | - AliExpress

I know I'm a bit over my paygrade and I still have a bit of a hard time to understand how arc/CEC will go to the amp. And if this should go though the DAC.

For AMP I'm looking everywhere - seems like its difficult to find a good selection here in Denmark ( and german websites does not show up in my searches )
But it could be something like this: TINYSINE TSA7500B 2.1 Amplifier Module Bluetooth TPA3221 aptX 2x100W + 200W - Audiophonics

Then I "just" need DAP

For DSP I was looking at:
WONDOM ADAU1701 DSP Active Audio Crossover with RCA daughter board option - Audiophonics

with

WONDOM DB-DP11219 SigmaStudio Programmer Board for Sure DSP - Audiophonics

I know that a DSP might now do the trick - but I have heard how it can really help if needed. So why not ? Bang & Olufsen uses it in their 10k+ USD systems.

As it all needs to be added to furniture I cant go the HTPC way - Under strict orders from the wife to make sure it looks pretty!

 

[Douglas Blake]

Thanks so much for your time!

No worries ... I'm on lockdown avoiding the virus so lots of time on my hands.

Your parts list is impressive, but please let me suggest that you also take a look at the ICEPower modules and some of the stuff on Parts Express and Amazon ... you may find similar functionality at much lower prices.

And just one little nudge ... Don't get carried away on amplifier power. Most common sense "living room" listening happens at about 1 or 2 watts, so 25 to 50 w/ch should satisfy with even the most power hungry speakers. (Dedicated rooms with heavy sound treatments are a different story)

I know that a DSP might now do the trick - but I have heard how it can really help if needed. So why not ? Bang & Olufsen uses it in their 10k+ USD systems.

Nearly everyone is using DSP these days. So much so that it's become a very easy way to cover up bad engineering and shoddy manufacturing. I've always preferred to get things "close as makes no difference" then using DSP for only minor corrections.

My current system is using neither a sub nor DSP and it sounds pretty good to me.

As it all needs to be added to furniture I cant go the HTPC way - Under strict orders from the wife to make sure it looks pretty!

Well if you use the little IN-Win cases I use and build with Mini-ITX boards, you get a unit that is only 8 inches by 8 inches by 3 inches, about the size of a kid's lunchbox and using a wireless keyboard and the BIOS "On From Keyboard" option you can hide the thing on a small shelf in the back and nobody would even know it's there. But of course that's just me banging my own gong... you may choose otherwise.

 

[ScottG]

And to connect the TV via HDMI. Would love to have ARC activated, so the sound volume when using the tv/apple tv, would be controlled by what ever device we use ( and not a 3rd one to the amp )

..look at Home Theater Receivers in your market that have the features you want and are perhaps a little bit older and priced lower as a result.

Then just build it into the cabinet you are designing, just like 50's/60's era consoles.

ex.
Amazon.com: Yamaha RX-V683BL 7.2-Channel MusicCast AV Receiver with Bluetooth: Electronics

 

[CasperH]

Hi Scott

That was my very first thought but as electronics are very seldom cheap in Denmark, I would not be able to get what I need for what I want to pay. Also, there is a clear demand that in the TV cabinet / Tv furniture, there will be a middle room for my Xbox and such. So sadly no room for a big receiver.

The problem with the danish minimalistic design ideas is, that furniture should not be chunky and fill the room - so trying to uphold the wishes from the wify

If it was up to me, it would a very different setup

But at least I'm going to build something and I do enjoy a steep learning curve.

 

[CasperH]

How does the amp board get the volume control ?

I was just thinking in the shower - If I have more than one input - what controls the volume output ?

 

[Douglas Blake]

How does the amp board get the volume control ?

I was just thinking in the shower - If I have more than one input - what controls the volume output ?

If you are going to have to build something like a shelving unit in the centre perhaps you should consider some of the consumer alternatives to your current parts selection. Some of them are very small, like THIS, and offer most everything you've discussed so far. But, of course, without all the gaggle of wires, multiple power supplies, control panels, etc, that a DIY project would entail.

Perhaps instead of a "sound bar" you might like to re-envision it as an equipment stand with built in speakers ...

Just a thought.

 

[CasperH]

Hi again

That seems like a viable candidate
But it lacks two important things: HDMI input that can handle ARCH/CAC and wifi

I know my idea of building everything seems like a hassle and it is! If I could find a good price alternative that is not as big as a normal hifi receiver - I would.

But I need it to be able to have the HDMI input ( so tv, apple tv, Chromecast can handle volume ) and non-Bluetooth streaming option ( both for better quality, the possibility to stream even though I'm bit far from the system, Parring with future tv and multi-room capability )

Damn - hate being under the female regime!

 

[ScottG]

Damn - hate being under the female regime!

-well then, assert a modicum of male dominance.


Actually the best way to deal with this is to substantively involve her in the planning of the project. Shapes, sizes, aesthetic choices, and most particularly: limitations.

 

[ScottG]

Hi Scott

That was my very first thought but as electronics are very seldom cheap in Denmark, I would not be able to get what I need for what I want to pay. Also, there is a clear demand that in the TV cabinet / Tv furniture, there will be a middle room for my Xbox and such. So sadly no room for a big receiver.

The problem with the danish minimalistic design ideas is, that furniture should not be chunky and fill the room - so trying to uphold the wishes from the wify

1. do what Sweden does: Amazon US + Buy in the USA and UK, ship globally with Borderlinx

2. Do a *CAD model and try to get everything you want (connectivity/dsp/preamp/amplifiers - from a receiver), in a form-factor that's acceptable. You are going to run-into compromises somewhere - see if you can actually minimize them to get everything you want at a decent price.

*typically Sketchup.

 

[Douglas Blake]

I know my idea of building everything seems like a hassle and it is! If I could find a good price alternative that is not as big as a normal hifi receiver - I would.

Building stuff is not a hassle ... it's a hobby.

That wasn't the point, I was looking at the logistics of getting the whole thing into a confined space with minimal hassle.

You aren't likely to find HDMI or WiFi on many stereo receivers. Home theatre rigs yes... stereo not so much. Then even if you did find it, it would be very expensive because it's not a mass market item.

Sadly we stereo buffs are a strange lot... we have one chair we use to listen, with a perfect bum print in it from the time spent there. We sit perfectly still, lest we lose the soundstage and we stare at foam rubber egg crates all over our walls trying to envision the performers on stage, while spinning 40 year old vinyl records and using tube amplifiers... LOL ... not exactly the kind to have whole home audio going on...


You might find this interesting ... ARYLIC

 

[SpeakerBob]

The Lemus thing is basically a large cupboard with a pair of 2 ways bolted on the ends( with the tweeters in the wrong position )

Can you not use the headphone out of the TV to feed an amp and just use a pair of used bookshelf speakers and their xo's to build into the cabinet ?

The TVs vol. control will control the headphone out levels and the xbox etc can connect direct to the tv ?

Cheap as chips

Rob.

Pic 3 on the Lemus website is that a bottle of Blantons bourbon I see there ?


JBL Paragon would be more my cup of tea for this project

 

[brig001]

Second using the headphone output. I do this and used an Airport Express for AirPlay. Simply mix the two to the power amps or DSP

Brian

 

[Jim Griffin]

The clear answer for Casper is to use a home theater capable receiver. These units checkoff all of the needs in his first post. These days several manufacturers have HT receivers that offer Airplay, Wi-Fi, HDMI with arc, and room correction in one box.

I use a Denon AVR-X3600H as a stereo unit (actually 2.2 channels) even though it has 9.2 channel capability. I wanted the preamp outputs for two subs and its Audyssey speaker and room correction. Wi-Fi, HDMI with arc, Airplay 2 come along in the same unit.

As you wish to have a smaller solution with similar capability, consider the Marantz NR1609 (or later model NR1710) which has a smaller profile that the usual HT receiver unit.