I'm search of a fine set of speakers for my first vintage set.
Hooking up on a Sony TA-F4A amplifier.
My first choices were B&W DM4 or KEF SP 104 the looks are very vintage and must sound great but don't come cheap.
When i scrolled down the adverts every time I came across a pair of Technics SB-5 but found the looks to modern.... Imagine in that day it's was a novelty homecomb speakers.
But the price they asked 40 Euro.....!!! I had to look. Went there and it was an older couple. They are the first owner and always been kind on the SB-5.
Measured ohm 7.6 ohm... All speakers came sound from... Yes great...
Took out the crossover board. But wow that's a solid piece of hardware.
Now the main question. What brand of capacitors should I choose? There are so many. Nichicon i know is good... But which line?
Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
Hooking up on a Sony TA-F4A amplifier.
My first choices were B&W DM4 or KEF SP 104 the looks are very vintage and must sound great but don't come cheap.
When i scrolled down the adverts every time I came across a pair of Technics SB-5 but found the looks to modern.... Imagine in that day it's was a novelty homecomb speakers.
But the price they asked 40 Euro.....!!! I had to look. Went there and it was an older couple. They are the first owner and always been kind on the SB-5.
Measured ohm 7.6 ohm... All speakers came sound from... Yes great...
Took out the crossover board. But wow that's a solid piece of hardware.
Now the main question. What brand of capacitors should I choose? There are so many. Nichicon i know is good... But which line?
Can someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
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Really? This speaker is 40 years old.....??
The Sony re-cap kit is also on its way. But that I don't have to sort out myself... [emoji23].
I have solder skills.... But which brand and type caps?? Read some Nichicon are not suited well for crossovers.
Yeah that's a bit of a problem..... In one thread they say this on a certain type.... On another thread the next haha
I've had experience with these older speakers, and have yet to come across one with capacitor troubles........ even after 40 years.
I ran a repair shop for decades, I ought to know.
If the speakers sound okay then wiseoldtech is correct. The old couple you bought the speakers from probably hardly used them.
If you insist on replacing the capacitors they are bipolar electrolytic types, just replace with the same value and voltage rating. Choose from Nichicon, Panasonic, Cornell Dubilier, Rubycon.
No need for expensive audiophile capacitors, they won't improve a 40 year old loudspeaker.
If you insist on replacing the capacitors they are bipolar electrolytic types, just replace with the same value and voltage rating. Choose from Nichicon, Panasonic, Cornell Dubilier, Rubycon.
No need for expensive audiophile capacitors, they won't improve a 40 year old loudspeaker.
I don't doubt your advise. And appreciate it.. Thanks.
I always learned capacitors degrade in time. Or is it something different in speakers compared to power outlet current?
Thanks nice overview. I am just replacing because i want everything as it left the factory.I searched the net and a quick search shows drifting capacitors. But this is for ZX Spectrum computer. But it will give rough idea.
But your speaker crossover value may be drifted or not only measuring will tell.
Regards.
And those capacitors aren't the world of money.
Did a search on the net also and electrolytic capacitors do age... After 30 years they act like a resistor.
For me it's just a fun project. Polishing the drivers clean the pots etc. And look if there is a difference.
That statement - that I highlighted and underlined - tells me that the "recapping craze" of the internet has gotten to you too.
Someone started that "fear" on the internet and it's gotten out of control.
Now, everybody seems to think that anything vintage or old needs "recapping".
Not true.
Yes, in some cases, a defective capacitor needs replacement - and there's many products produced from 2002-2005 that had bad caps, due to a bad batch -
the "Bad Caps Syndrome" back then... and I suspect this ongoing recapping thing was driven by that incident.
Detectit1, in looking at the pic of your crossover I could not but notice the steel nut and bolt holding down each of the iron cored inductors. That is hardly of good design, it can only lead to inductance errors with those components. If you are going to the trouble of replacing the capacitors it would be a better proposition to remove those steel nuts and bolts an replace each of them with a nylon tie or a nylon equivalent.
Non polar electroytics can have a wide tolerance range and their capacitance and working voltage also changes over time, that is one of the reasons why DIYer's generally change them to polyprop's. Another point is that such NP electro's are small in size and if they are of a high capacitance they are generally used in the bass frequency region. This translates to heavy bass currents flowing through them so their ESR dissipates the energy loss as heat. Effectively through extended use they will get hot and become prone to failure, so if you like your music loud and with + hours of use (party time) it may well become a predicted outcome. If you are going to use NP electro's make sure they are not the small printed circuit board types as in your crossover pic.
C.M
Non polar electroytics can have a wide tolerance range and their capacitance and working voltage also changes over time, that is one of the reasons why DIYer's generally change them to polyprop's. Another point is that such NP electro's are small in size and if they are of a high capacitance they are generally used in the bass frequency region. This translates to heavy bass currents flowing through them so their ESR dissipates the energy loss as heat. Effectively through extended use they will get hot and become prone to failure, so if you like your music loud and with + hours of use (party time) it may well become a predicted outcome. If you are going to use NP electro's make sure they are not the small printed circuit board types as in your crossover pic.
C.M
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I doubt that Technics used steel bolts, the one's I've come across are brass.
To judge from a poor online photo isn't a good idea.
Detectit1 can use a magnet to determine if in fact they are steel.
Those screws & nuts look like standard Japanese plated-steel hardware to me. But more importantly, those chokes are already iron-core types. So the little extra bit of steel either doesn`t have much additional effect, or (more likely) has already been factored into the design parameters - just like electrolytic ESR, inductor DCR, and all the other stuff people are always trying to "correct" in these old commercial designs.
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@Detectit1: which values do you need? Please make a drawing of the filter. Just use bipolar electrolytic caps of aforementioned brands and preferably a bit higher rated (voltage). When higher rated they will fit better physically as caps have become way smaller than 40 years ago. Higher rated in voltage also makes them a bit better performing.
For the tweeter where most often small value caps are used I would use a film cap as these perform better at that spot and they are quite small nowadays. If the speaker sound a bit bright it may help to solder a 2W 47 Ohm metal film (NO wire wound) resistor across the + and - terminal of the tweeter.
Now a lengthy discussion will follow that my choice for a film cap is debatable and what dieelectricum to choose in the wrong approach
I got tired of such discussions but even a MKT/MKS is better than an electrolytic cap. MKC was very good but not available anymore, MKP is the better one compared to MKT but quite larger in size.
BTW to silence the discussion to replace or not to replace it would help tremendously if you could publish the measured values of the old caps. I know that brand/type and have seen them often deviating from their intended value.
For the tweeter where most often small value caps are used I would use a film cap as these perform better at that spot and they are quite small nowadays. If the speaker sound a bit bright it may help to solder a 2W 47 Ohm metal film (NO wire wound) resistor across the + and - terminal of the tweeter.
Now a lengthy discussion will follow that my choice for a film cap is debatable and what dieelectricum to choose in the wrong approach
I got tired of such discussions but even a MKT/MKS is better than an electrolytic cap. MKC was very good but not available anymore, MKP is the better one compared to MKT but quite larger in size.BTW to silence the discussion to replace or not to replace it would help tremendously if you could publish the measured values of the old caps. I know that brand/type and have seen them often deviating from their intended value.
Hi Detectit and all,
Nice score with your sb loudspeakers! What a bargain.
Those series of drivers are rather nice sounding for their time ( very neutral sounding) and are much better than the equivalent technology of the area ( Sony had 'plane honeycomb' but square in their shape drivers too).
I own Sb-M2 and faced same issue than yours. And i must sadly said that in my case the capacitors had drifted in value over time and when i decided to redo filter some 10years ago it was difficult to find something pleasing me.
At that time i didn't find the bipolar capacitors needed so went an other way ( dsp multi amp).
That said if you want to stay passive same technology originaly used Mundorf Ecap are the way to go imho.
Or you could 'upgrade' using same method Jean Paul exposed previously.
Whatever way you choose you may have to rebuild the filter pcb has you'll probably have to use multiple caps to rebuild values needed and make filter outside of box (because of bulk concerns). It may well be better than stock.
I changed internal wiring too for Mogami and didn't regret it!
Oh i forgot but in mine there was some constant impedance attenuator ( volume knobs for mid and high) which had gone scratchy and had intermittent cut so i bypassed them. There was a polyswitch too to protect tweeter which i bypassed too ( those are highly non linear device). It made the high clearer ( but difficult to tell if that comes from bypassing all that or going multiamp dsp filter).
Nice score with your sb loudspeakers! What a bargain.
Those series of drivers are rather nice sounding for their time ( very neutral sounding) and are much better than the equivalent technology of the area ( Sony had 'plane honeycomb' but square in their shape drivers too).
I own Sb-M2 and faced same issue than yours. And i must sadly said that in my case the capacitors had drifted in value over time and when i decided to redo filter some 10years ago it was difficult to find something pleasing me.
At that time i didn't find the bipolar capacitors needed so went an other way ( dsp multi amp).
That said if you want to stay passive same technology originaly used Mundorf Ecap are the way to go imho.
Or you could 'upgrade' using same method Jean Paul exposed previously.
Whatever way you choose you may have to rebuild the filter pcb has you'll probably have to use multiple caps to rebuild values needed and make filter outside of box (because of bulk concerns). It may well be better than stock.
I changed internal wiring too for Mogami and didn't regret it!
Oh i forgot but in mine there was some constant impedance attenuator ( volume knobs for mid and high) which had gone scratchy and had intermittent cut so i bypassed them. There was a polyswitch too to protect tweeter which i bypassed too ( those are highly non linear device). It made the high clearer ( but difficult to tell if that comes from bypassing all that or going multiamp dsp filter).
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This test is only valid if the initial values had been measured.
I searched the net and a quick search shows drifting capacitors. But this is for ZX Spectrum computer. But it will give rough idea.
But your speaker crossover value may be drifted or not only measuring will tell.
Regards.
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